The 3 Pillars Endgame Model - Permanent fix of the map endgame system

If you would,

I'd like you to expand more on:

"very rare map drops" - does this mean you won't get enough maps this way to sustain and will be forced to go into zana randoms to get high drops to go again?

..

your system sparked some thoughts.

I really like the idea of spamming random zana missions. I'd really like to spam random zana missions constantly, and never sink my currency into maintaining maps in any way whatsoever, and never having to fucking manage maps into a million taps and empty them into my stash all the time. I just wanna eternally farm, don't facking distract me.

I don't like that you are supposed to have a straight chain of maps to run in your journey system, although i like the journey system itself.

..

While we are busy dreaming. Why don't we imagine that all low maps were removed. Not only that, but "map level" ceased to exist. From now on there would only be map of some tileset.

Why don't we also imagine that PoE implemented a proper crafting system based on materials dropping from various monsters, so that you wanted to go out into certain zones to farm those zones because those monsters would spawn there that gave things used in crafting. Some of these things should only be obtainable from the real merciless zones.

What if normal-cruel was the intro, and merciless was "equal levelish". Let's put some numbers on. Merciless would be plain 70 in all area(areas could be -1 -+2 depending on their class), but all acts and areas centered around 70.

And now maps could drop everywhere in merciless. You could go out farm certain monsters for certain crafting mats, and you would sometimes find a map.

Now. Back to Zana. Now Zana had free spamable maps. You can only enter one map per 5 minutes unless you killed the boss in which case the timer ended. These were a step up from merciless and spawned completely random level zones and tilesets between level 71-75. Completely random. Intended as best place to farm map drops and xp in endgame, until you gained new maps to run.

These Zana maps would have random rolls on them, which in combination with their level being higher also meant you would get more drops than regular zones. The mods she could roll would be better(more rewarding) than the current zana. The random rolls would remove the most retarded mods but instead only focus on mods that put more pressure on players such as higher monster damage, less regen or similar. No immunities whatsoever, any absolute stoppers for a build type is a failure there.

Now, these maps that can drop, which are only a tileset with no level can be used in the following way:

When you have 3 maps, you can open them with the map device. This will open 6 portals. That will lead to sort of a crumbling laboratory. In there will be a portal that can only be entered once by each player(despawns for them afterwards). To progress to the next map, you need to kill the boss which will open a portal into the next area. So if you die, you are out. The areas are randomly rolled level 76-79.

Open killing the boss of the third area, a portal will open into a bonus fourth area. This is again a randomly rolled area of level 80-82.

Not intended for players to sustain journeys, but to farm zana 71-75 zones if you want to optimize xp/overall drops, and when 3 maps farmed, you could enter a "journey", wherein you would get 3 76-79 maps and if you didn't die you would gain a last 80-82 map.

No more fucking rolling maps. Bye map rolling, and your multitude of negative, frustrating and demoralizing aspects that make no sense.


Additional information:

Bosses don't drop too many maps, to ensure players takes time to kill monsters in randon zana maps.
When you are ready to do a journey.. then you will do up to 4 maps, which means you won't be wasting your time here picking up chrome items all the time and such shit. That's something you do the rest of the time, when you are in a journey you need not concern yourself with it very much. It means you vary your acts instead of repeating always the same, which adds longevity, it's the same with crafting maps dropping from certain monsters you can target, it adds variety which leads to longevity. Just look how much fun ppl had in world of warcraft targeting things to farm at will.

It rewards players for having good builds, which is what is required to access on average more 80-82 maps. These 80-82 map bosses should have some fucking serious drops, like 4 times current bosses drops.

In regular zanas you can focus on packs density thinking and monsters/time since you can always open a new map after the boss is dead. In <Journeys you want to kill them all for max xp. Again this is diversity, you modify your behaviour instead of everything being the same shade of grey. PS: it's important with limit of enter 1 per 5min unless the boss die, so that you can't just abuse the system enterings anothers hideout using their zana until u get a nice tileset.

Also, overall map "drop rates", could be adjusted until reaching a desireable level where players feel they aren't waiting too long get another journey, then after establising that first, then afterwards you can adjust xp required to level until the desired level rate of players is reached.

Ahhh, i love dreaming. Well, fear not world, before my time is over i will bring you what i love.

Or even simpler solution.

Give Zana 3-5 quest like daily but without Zana-XP and finishing conditions.
They always 69+ZanaLvL. That ensure all would have same quantity of tries, whether they play 1h/day or 16h/day. And Zana LvL would matter.
If you think they would be too much free loot, then ensure they roll only as magic not rare.


P.S. Sorry for my english.

I'd like game-play difficulty based progression, but there's several design decisions in PoE that will never allow this, namely: trading, gear itemization & static difficulty.

* When a player can buy endgame gear, that allows him to defeat top tier maps, without the player ever setting foot in a map (of any tier), then content progression cannot be difficulty-based, but completely random as it's now.

* Itemization is also messed up, with everything dropping everywhere. Playing higher difficult content doesn't guarantee you anything, you'll sooner equip your char with upgrades by clearing faceroll content faster. And everything is skip-able with trading.

* Char levels mean nothing. Gear means everything.

* With static difficulty, a certain build can totally destroy content X, so content X can't have "good & deterministic drops", mostly it has to be completely random (there is a slight deviation to this, with Atziri, but if you ever farmed her, you know how a piled up RNG pyramid is to get to there and get something decent off her)

---

Throwing in a ton of RNG layers and let trading sort out the mess, is the easiest and cheapest design possible, and already fits GGG's vision of what ARPG-ing is about (mostly economy). An affordable structured system, based on gameplay difficulty, doesn't fit here.

@crack

I would love to see the basic points of your post concluded to make your thoughts more accessible. What is the overall difference to my suggested system and to the now system? How does it overall fit with PoE ideologies and concepts?


To grab some of your points:

Not spending any currency at all for progressing wont work imo:
- PoE has always followed the idea of spending currency in order to progress, which shouldnt be completely changed now with respect to the players that leveled up within these conditions already and spent their currency.
- a system of spending less currency on mapping imo can only be connected with a risk/reward thing that these journeys would offer to players. Journeys would oftenly lead to the case that players don't complete all 6 maps and also involve that players cannot bring back the same amount of currency from selling items. Therefore you can in this case reduce costs for starting the 6 maps without an effect on global economy.



I especially like the idea of consequtive maps for the journey column 3 thing:

- players build up maps from the bottom to the top. This means there will always or most of the time be a consecutive set of 4 maps available for everyone.

- doing a journey includes the following risks:
a) risk of not being able to complete due to time (like in 6 map rotations, some guys have to leave early sometimes due to rl happenings and tasks).
b) risk of hitting a zone with rolls that doesn't allow you to proceed safely.
c) general risk of dying due to a player mistake (e.g. loose play) which doesn't allow you to proceed.


Upsides:

1. Market:
All these risks and the ones that I didn't mention but still come with it allow GGG to grant the reward of two higher zones without having to let them drop to players in form of a map. This is the biggest upside for economy/market control. As these maps don't drop but are being generated to play for the players involved, GGG can make higher content available to players by a straight risk/reward system and keep maps as scarce as they want to.

2. Teamplay:
Due to the random rolls there could be alot of teamplay involved. Who is the guy who can deal damage on a phys reflect map/ele reflect map if we hit one? Who is the guy who can tank on a map with hard increased damage mods combined with vulnerability if we hit one? Which player can deal with this or that boss?

3. Charackter planning:
Being able to play random map rolls requires good charackter planning. No such thing as "I just dodge a large amount of rolls that my build is not fine with" would be viable. This requires even better balance of the map mods ofc. Possibly things like BM might have to just go.

4. Incentive to play lower maps:
E.g. temp league current system, a week in. Player(81) has 68-72 maps. In current system player would try to play his highest maps in order to be able to proceed and if he fails dropping 73s/74s he will experience it as loss, pain and headache. In my idea players would gladly play a consecutive set of 4 maps 68-71 or 69-72 in order to get either a 72+73 or a 73+74 zone for free in return, if they manage to get there.

E.g. in perm league player(93) has a hard time to maintain 78+ maps, he got plenty of 75-76 and few 77s tho. Now he would feel punished to play 75/76 maps only in the current system.
In my column 3 system he would gladly build a set of 74-77 maps in order to 100% obtain the chance to get into the 78 and 79 zone. If he fails to get there, he won't blame the map RNG for it but his build or gear, his offensive style of play or his rl duties that interfered in the middle. Problem solved.

5. Replacement for rotating alyway the same lvl maps. This is huge too. No more words needed for anyone who has done hundreds of 77 or 78 rotations. E.g. instead of 79 map rotation, ppl could do a 76-79 journey in order to get an 80 and 81 for free for those who maintain to stay alive until the end.

6. Best of all: It is not the replacement for everything in endgame of poe.
You got plenty of 80-82 maps? Hey lets do a rotation of these maps still.
You want to mf? I can hardly carry enough to make mf worth in these journeys, lets mf on well rolled maps.
You want to take less risks or don't have time for the journey? Lets play 2-3 normal maps and see what happens.

7. More hardcore in softcore: As you lose out on all following maps if you die in one of the maps, players are required to play more hardcore style in the softcore leagues.


The only thing to figure out here is where and how to let players get maps. I don't like my idea of letting them drop in zana random zones much at all tbh.

Right now I am thinking that 50% of players maps should come from drops out of zones they play and the other 50% should be obtained differently.

Differently could be a master quest system that is seperated from getting master xp and doing their missions:
Masters give you quests to play areas/maps with certain rolls or combination of rolls on a certain monster lvl and then gives a map reward for doing so.
E.g:
Quest:
- clear 3x75 zones (map, journey for sure, possibly including zana) of any roll
Reward:
- 1x 76 map

Quest:
- clear one 82 zone with physical and elemental reflect
Reward:
- 2x 81 map

Quest:
- Do a vorici mission in a lvl 79 zone
Reward:
- 1x 79 map

and so on.

These quests would have to be stackable and you could create a system similar to masters of letting them appear on a daily basis (= master dailies) and create other methods for players to generate more of these quests per day, possibly: buy new side quest from a master for 6 chaos (as an example). Or: running 10 zones of 75+ grants an additional map side quest.

Maps could be acquired to 50% in this way and to another 50% from usual drops.

The map reward quest system has the additional upside (in addition of distributing maps more fairly) of allowing GGG to implement master missions into it so that even ppl who have their masters maxed get the task to do a masters mission on a higher map in order to get the reward for it, what is being skipped now 100%.

The balance is easily adjustable. If the map quest reward system produces too many maps for instance, you simply can buff regular map drops and the other way round within a season. In the next season bigger adjustments then are possible.


greetings




p.s:

@shags
Really cute shagsbeard; tickeling your neck; really cute!
But now it is time to get out of my thread. You cannot contribute.

@LSN

I don't like that you suggest only 1 portal to 6 maps.

1. I for example play block/def, not so good dps as result low clear-speed. So to counter it i pick up all rares, currency, uniques even if it super-crappy, because i cannot run map in 3 min pick best an run 5 more maps in half-hour time i have to play, I need sustain my currency somehow. So if i cannot return to vendor i have very low time-currency outcome.

2. DC and map load problems and u lose not 1 but 4-(6) maps.

3. If i die in first map i not only lost chance to get +1+2 maps but 3 of my other maps i invested. And dont say "git gud", even with sturdy char i get one-shotted time from time. Or get low fps on some act 4 areas/mobs and die or freeze on opening box. and i cannot resolve it even if i invest even more into gear.

"

DoraPomidora wrote:

@LSN

I don't like that you suggest only 1 portal to 6 maps.

1. I for example play block/def, not so good dps as result low clear-speed. So to counter it i pick up all rares, currency, uniques even if it super-crappy, because i cannot run map in 3 min pick best an run 5 more maps in half-hour time i have to play, I need sustain my currency somehow. So if i cannot return to vendor i have very low time-currency outcome.

2. DC and map load problems and u lose not 1 but 4-(6) maps.

3. If i die in first map i not only lost chance to get +1+2 maps but 3 of my other maps i invested. And dont say "git gud", even with sturdy char i get one-shotted time from time. Or get low fps on some act 4 areas/mobs and die or freeze on opening box. and i cannot resolve it even if i invest even more into gear.

1. I consider this as one of the upsides. I did never think of a journey system to be placed on top of everything and to to replace everything. You want magic find or sell mass items? Play maps. Journeys require less currency (as map rolls are random and not have to be rolled) but involve more risk and limited ability to extract items. You get 2 free higher level maps to play in return and still can pick up the best items you find.

2. Huge issue. Ty for pointing at it. GGG needed to implement a system that detects disconnects and let players reenter the zones they were in without the use of a portal (abuse possible, therefore a bit tricky I guess).

3. Yes thats right. This is what should make you play even the lower zones carefully and compile a good team of players (finally some teamplay required in poe, huh?) in order to deal with any possible combination of map mods.

The system of high risks is inherent to the journey system as I imagine it. If you can't deal with it then don't and play usual maps or zana. If you can, you will get rewarded in the end with extra XP and a final reward for completing all 6 maps without dying.


Alternatively I think it would be possible to allow each player 2 entries into the journey. That wouldn't be too bad too I think.

I'd like to goin into detail, unfortunately i'm really in a rush today, need clean my place before a visit.. I will return though.

Anyways i just wanted to say the currency for maps is best is a damn myth. All you'd do is free up crafting materials for actual equipment crafting - alterations and chaos. These now will drop in value and will be used to craft things like jewels.

That's it.

It is not going to destroy the game from within.

No, whatever small effect it will have on the economy is nothing compared to the extreme negative aspects associated with map rolling, such as:

- Extreme demorilization by losing your wealth bleeding it out just trying to play
- Severely dampens any skill of player leading to higher content played, it is more a frustrating situation where it mostly becomes more expensive if your build sucks.
- extreme reliance on RNG and as you can tell the community loves this in map access.

Benefits of removing are things such as:

- Players now feel encouraged to keep going, and will steadily build their wealth to work towards whatever items they wanted to acquire.
- With removal of eternal, these chaos orbs now more abundant in the economy can be spammed on gear for crafting by anyone.
- Players can relax because they are not being demoralized.

There are a lot more plusses and minusses but i am out of time to think of them.

"

LSN wrote:

In a perfect world you would play maps for XP and items/currency. In PoE you play maps in order to sustain maps in new leagues and if you are not super rich in standard as well.

that is a subjective view of a 'perfect world'. just because you think maps shouldnt be huge currency sinks doesnt mean others do. I, for example, think maps should be currency sinks. high maps especially should give you negative return imo, if you want XP, you try to sustain high maps, if you want items/currency you farm areas that are free or low level map. so, your point is based on a purely subjective view of what maps should do.

"

If you compare it to poker, why don't you suggest to allow RMT with maps? The current system encourages to use real money to speed up your map bankroll just as poker encourages you to use your private money to go up to adequate stakes in order to save time. As RMT is forbidden by GGG, a system that by evidence encourages RMT is by default not doing its job at all. Poker is a game that ppl earn income with, PoE isn't.

RMT is irrelevant in the comparison. RMT is cheating and it breaks each situation. we have in-game currency an we have poker bankrolls. if we allow cheating in poker analogy to build up the bankroll, by say snatching purses from old ladies to play high stakes..then it doesnt make sense at all.

"

Players get into bad mood when:
- they see other RMT for maps (most of the top temp league players do it on a frequent basis, there is no other way to get and sustain the mappool they use) and therefore they had to pay higher prices if they every here and then wanted to legitimately buy a few higher maps for the few orbs they earned hard.

well, people can get in a bad mood too if they see drug dealers make more money than them. that does not mean they should go and sling shit does it ? RMT is irrelevant to discussion. you can cheat anytime in life, with different risks.

"

- less bad mood (less visible rng in rng on rng) as there are different things and tasks to do instead of just playing maps in order to get maps (headache before + feeling of getting punished after)

bad mood is, again, subjective bs. a casual player is in a bad mood if they dont get a drop/ugrade after 3 hours of play. boo hoo. a game isnt a blowjob to give you good mood 24/7. and THIS game is CERTAINLY not intended to give you good mood all the time.

"

- a solid basis to fall back on (column 2)

again, column 2 isnt anything different from low level maps (68-70) in which you can get rarity multiplication by just transmute/aug and go.

"

- being able to play maps without worrying about mapdrops

you can do that, again, by playing low level maps right now

"

Sorry, what did you say again about poker? Irrelevant.

its very relevant because it applies to reality and easily debunked what you wrote about the system not applying to reality.

"

that is a subjective view of a 'perfect world'. just because you think maps shouldnt be huge currency sinks doesnt mean others do. I, for example, think maps should be currency sinks. high maps especially should give you negative return imo, if you want XP, you try to sustain high maps, if you want items/currency you farm areas that are free or low level map. so, your point is based on a purely subjective view of what maps should do.

You are assuming things that I have never said. I was the one complaining most about packsize 78 spamming pre 2.0. I even suggested in this thread that mapdrops should be lowered by 50% combined with the implementation of other ways to acquire maps. This is how little you really understood.

"

RMT is irrelevant in the comparison. RMT is cheating and it breaks each situation. we have in-game currency an we have poker bankrolls. if we allow cheating in poker analogy to build up the bankroll, by say snatching purses from old ladies to play high stakes..then it doesnt make sense at all.

RMT is relevant for PoE. PoE endgame system encourages the use of RMT. End of discussion on this one.

"

well, people can get in a bad mood too if they see drug dealers make more money than them. that does not mean they should go and sling shit does it ? RMT is irrelevant to discussion. you can cheat anytime in life, with different risks.

The map system got under fire after the release of 2.0 again (pre 2.0 it was packsize 78s = ~90% sustain). Obviously alot of people agree upon it being unfun and unfair and therefore no matter what your individual opinion is, there is demand for change and I serve this demand with these suggestions. Alot of people quit the game over exactly this topic. If ppl play about 20 80%+ 78 maps and get like 3-4 78 or higher back in return there is some reason for it I guess. They have lost their mapping currency and the maps too.

My suggestions aim at improving the system without an increase of mapdrops, without making high maps available for everyone at anytime or effortlessly.

"

again, column 2 isnt anything different from low level maps (68-70) in which you can get rarity multiplication by just transmute/aug and go.

Of course it is: Zana maps are way more fun to play as you can get mixtures of tileset and lvl that don't exist in normal maps. They involve little extra tasks, they have random mods and therefore can't be build abused as much (concerning the blue packsize thing). Therefore much less tiring.

"

its very relevant because it applies to reality and easily debunked what you wrote about the system not applying to reality.

You didn't even understand what I wrote tbh. So its far away from "easily debunked" anything.

You seem to not have understood that an endgame solution like sending players on journeys does perfectly complement what we got yet:

The limited ability to extract items out of it translates into less available global crafting materials.
Therefore entry costs could be reduced (I suggested a small fee) or even removed at all.

The increased risk would cause alot of players to fail before reaching the two free maps in many times.

The system includes to play lower lvl zones at own will for a definite reason with guaranteed reward instead of a punishment for lacking mapdrops and waiting for good RNG to happen or not.

Players would get access to higher level zones through it without impact on the map economy as these zones don't drop as maps but are being generated temporarily.

The best out of all is that it doesn't replace high map 6x rotations or zana but is an alternative with increased risk for XP and increased rewards of XP.



Now the question how to deal with map acquisition for players can be answered in different ways. One way ofc is to leave map drops as is.

I'd prefer to cut mapdrops by at least 50% and offer other ways to acquire limited amounts of maps per time investment to players via masters, as stated. This way you can get rid of the pure RNG that is involved.



The reason for my suggestions is that the map system obviously cannot work by default and I will explain you again why this is.
There is no perfect balance of sufficient map drops possible. Either they drop too much (e.g. pre 2.0) or they don't. There is nothing inbetween this as the reality of 2+ years of poe has proven. This combined with RNG creates unwanted results with some guys are being diced out and others being lucky.

Right now there are only 3 options that you can choose from when you are lacking maps long-term:

a) you can afford to buy maps legitimately with your orbs that you got mostly from trading
b) you rmt for orbs and buy maps
c) you run lower level maps for as long as you require to build up some higher maps (pure RNG dependence, waste of currency on lower maps = players get into bad mood)

My suggestions aims at players who are now just left with option c). This is the group that is most likely to just quit after 20-30 low maps with heavy currency investment but without results. And they are right with their complaint as well as ppl were right with complaining about 6linking items.

When I started playing poe in open beta I got my first 6L Astral after a week or two with 150-200 fusings. The friend that I played with at that time converted literally everything he had in order to 6L his chest after 3 weeks and it failed. He quitted and never came back. Rightfully, because it just isn't the way to go in games to leave everything to pure RNG. The same is true for maps. Having realized that, it doesn't take too much intelligence to accept that the map system by default can never get it done when you don't belong to group a) or b). You probably belong to one of these groups and therefore you wrote what you did.

"

LSN wrote:

You are assuming things that I have never said. I was the one complaining most about packsize 78 spamming pre 2.0. I even suggested in this thread that mapdrops should be lowered by 50% combined with the implementation of other ways to acquire maps. This is how little you really understood.

you said, I quote, "In a perfect world you would play maps for XP and items/currency".
I took it to mean that playing maps in your perfect world would yield XP AND items/currency, and not negative return on currency. it stems right from your statement.

since you started your argument from saying people want to play maps and cannot (which was incorrect in general- people want to play high maps and cannot play high maps, they can grind low level maps but they DONT WANT TO), you clearly are talking about high maps.

"

RMT is relevant for PoE. PoE endgame system encourages the use of RMT. End of discussion on this one.

yes, saying 'end of discussion on this one' really makes your point shine. cheating is encouraged in any game or competition in life. people cheat and RMT to get ahead or stroke their epeen. it has nothing to do with the analogy I was talking about, which involved tiered systems, or as chris wilson would say, pyramid structure.

"

The map system got under fire after the release of 2.0 again (pre 2.0 it was packsize 78s = ~90% sustain). Obviously alot of people agree upon it being unfun and unfair and therefore no matter what your individual opinion is,

ah you shouldve stated this in the first place.

your whole point is based on the axiom that map drops= unfair, and when I challenge your axiom, you hide behind the majority. go ahead, hide behide the insatiable majority who would QQ no matter what, and wants MOAR of everything, like drops.

"

lot of people quit the game over exactly this topic.

good, they werent built for the grind. again, something you refuse to admit- people simply dont want to grind low level maps. people who play low stakes poker do.

"

My suggestions aim at improving the system without an increase of mapdrops, without making high maps available for everyone at anytime or effortlessly.

thats great, but theres nothing inherently wrong with the map system. you need to grind. its too bad people have been conditioned by GGG when they gave in and made maps drops better in open beta. because map drops are scarcer than they used to be now, people are throwing tantrums right and left instead of grinding and playing the game.

"

Of course it is: Zana maps are way more fun to play as you can get mixtures of tileset and lvl that don't exist in normal maps. They involve little extra tasks, they have random mods and therefore can't be build abused as much (concerning the blue packsize thing). Therefore much less tiring.

the variety of tilesets is really the only thing going for them. mobs are quasi-random anyway on low level maps.

"

You didn't even understand what I wrote tbh.

I understood everything that you wrote. you said such system do not work in reality. they do, they exist and work well.
you just have to grind from the ground up, falling back on bad streaks several times. the road to success is a long rocky one. those who expect immediate gratification should not play poe.

"

The system includes to play lower lvl zones at own will for a definite reason with guaranteed reward instead of a punishment for lacking mapdrops and waiting for good RNG to happen or not.

again, low level maps fulfill that niche quite easily.

"

The reason for my suggestions is that the map system obviously cannot work by default and I will explain you again why this is.

please stop saying 'obviously' when it comes to your subjective opinion.
thats like saying 'obviously the earth is flat' back in galileo's times

"

There is no perfect balance of sufficient map drops possible. Either they drop too much (e.g. pre 2.0) or they don't. There is nothing inbetween this as the reality of 2+ years of poe has proven. This combined with RNG creates unwanted results with some guys are being diced out and others being lucky.

that doesnt make much sense. variance is a product of RNG. you play RNG, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. but what you want is always win. why ? its the definition of self-entitlement
you dont want to be in 'bad mood' ? there are hundreds of games that caress your epeen with carebear touch. why do you want to take a game where you 'lose' a bit more often than in others, and make it like others ?

"

c) you run lower level maps for as long as you require to build up some higher maps (pure RNG dependence, waste of currency on lower maps = players get into bad mood)

finally you acknowledged the easiest option available to all, albeit with some caveats. so the reason why you dont want to acknowledge my poker analogy is because you dont believe this is a good option ?and having a real life equivalent to the tiered system that requires a lot of low stakes grinding, goes against your point

"

This is the group that is most likely to just quit after 20-30 low maps with heavy currency investment but without results. And they are right with their complaint as well as ppl were right with complaining about 6linking items.

if you cant take the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen. if someone cannot grind low level maps what are they doing playing a game about grinding ? this make little sense. again, people who dont like grinding come into a game about grinding, dont like that they have to grind and want the game be about their style of play ? who does that ?

"

When I started playing poe in open beta I got my first 6L Astral after a week or two with 150-200 fusings. The friend that I played with at that time converted literally everything he had in order to 6L his chest after 3 weeks and it failed. He quitted and never came back. Rightfully, because it just isn't the way to go in games to leave everything to pure RNG. The same is true for maps. Having realized that, it doesn't take too much intelligence to accept that the map system by default can never get it done when you don't belong to group a) or b). You probably belong to one of these groups and therefore you wrote what you did.

cool story. and you guessed wrong- Im in the c group, but really the difference is that I *never* expect anything that isnt common. I have one 6L (nondrop) chest in 2.5 years of playing, and Im just a-ok with it. I wanted the map system in open beta to stay even though I coudlnt sustain anything above 72s without grinding a ton. you know why ? because Im fine with 'losing' to RNG. Im fine with mindless grinding, because this is a game about grinding
but people dont want to lose, they only want to win so not to be in a 'bad mood'. they also dont want to grind

again, your premise was 'people wanna play maps but they can't'
that is false. they can play maps. they cannot play maps they wanna play. they dont wanna WORK for it and they dont want to be on a losing end of the RNG.

so to all the people who wanna get maps without grinding, I think they oughta to quit. if they are in a 'bad mood' because they didnt 'win' heres the worlds smallest violin