Feedback and Suggestions (Path of Exile 1) - Upsides of Chaos Innoculation? - Forum

" Hunt8722 wrote: Yes it does seeing how CI has a higher "health pool" in general and the OP was stating you don't have "flasks" that regain your "health". Your flasks are instead giving you +10 to each resist so you are taking less damage from elemental damage. Also you lost socket for Reduced Mana so you can thank GGG because now you have a place for Vaal Discipline. Ok, lets look at Vaal Pact and what it offers in current state of the game. 1) It has to be filled with souls and it doesnt refill by simply porting out to the city. 2) Have you seen ES recharge rate after 2.0 release? It will hardly save you when u need to. 3) It has cast time. Therefore it doesn't work as oh-shit-button. It never did... 4) It consumes 2 sockets (useless without Increased Duration). How can u consider this as an equivalent for the flask? :D Even if you would be right (which is not the case) flasks are only one downside of CI. What about others in the list? oO you have similar argument for each one of them? Last edited by Diphal#5777 on Jul 14, 2015, 4:29:15 PM	Posted by Diphal#5777 on Jul 14, 2015, 4:27:59 PM Quote this Post
I think the real question you're trying to suggest is why ES at all? A lot of your problems with CI seem to be just general problems with ES as a main life force. The regen time, not being able to potion it, etc. The only other use for CI, IMO, is to allow you to get armor/evasion out of your chest piece. As opposed to using Shav's or having to stack chaos resists. Does this outweigh the costs of being stuck with 1 life and no ll capability? No. Not unless you have gear that is worth 100s of exalted orbs. i.e. helms with 400+ armor/es and all resists, boots with 300+ armor/es, etc. It costs a lot so you can properly invest in armor/evasion while still having all your energy shield. And even then.... I have no idea. I do not have 100s of exalted orbs to spend. I do think you could probably make a way better investment with that many exalted. Also, if I didn't have a bunch of ES gear already set up for that I would not bother getting the gear again. ES has really got shot down with most builds at this point. Just my thoughts. I could be wrong.	Posted by Finkelman#5841 on Jul 14, 2015, 5:13:55 PM Quote this Post
" Hunt8722 wrote: Yes it does seeing how CI has a higher "health pool" in general and the OP was stating you don't have "flasks" that regain your "health". Your flasks are instead giving you +10 to each resist so you are taking less damage from elemental damage. Also you lost socket for Reduced Mana so you can thank GGG because now you have a place for Vaal Discipline. Exactly how does CI give you a BIGGER health pool than having actual HP? I know it's got that big, scary 15% more ES node... But somehow, I'd find it rather surprising if someone went for a normal ES build... And their HP was less than 15% of their ES. (which is when their combined eHP would be equal) It's pretty plainly visible: the combined HP+ES of any non-CI build will outstrip the ES of a CI build. Also ignored is the major issue that, with CI, for elemental status effects and stun, your HP is considered your pre-CI figure. Since you probably didn't waste points on HP when you needed all the ES nodes you could get, this figure will be 998 at level 80. That's right, not even 1k, inviting the player to perma-freeze and other nasty things. Not taking CI doesn't make you magically incapable of taking elemental flasks. They're pretty standard practice when you know a nasty boss or enemy type focuses that element. 1 socket for Reduced Mana is somehow fewer than 2 sockets for Vaal Discipline+Increased Duration. At least, that's what the math seems like to me. I COULD be wrong. My guides: Summon Homing Missile (SRS) \| Act II starter RF \| Budget Oro's Flicker Strike	Posted by ACGIFT#1167 on Jul 14, 2015, 6:56:23 PM Quote this Post
" Diphal wrote: Lets list current downsides of CI: 1) You can't run Blood Magic map mod. 2) You can't make any use from MANY low life benefits. 3) There are basically no full life benefits. 4) You are forced to solve stun and freeze immunity somehow, because if you don't you can be easily stunlocked/freezelocked with that 1 hp pool. 5) You can run like 3 auras, maybe 4 with huge invesment to mana reservation. 6) You can't use Eldrich Battery. 7) You can't use Blood Rage in current state of the game. Well you can... but as a spellcaster it gave u only Frenzy Charge generation. Nothing else. And there is not even good replacement for BR stacking... Poacher's mark? Useless. Its simply not worth losing ES recharge. 8) There are no flasks to recharge ES. 9) Your armor will suck because you have to invest everything into ES. 10) You cannot use health regen without ZO (which is on the other side of passive tree compared to mandatory Ghost Reaver. What do you get in return? 1) You don't have to care about chaos damage. 2) You have max light radius all the time. 3) You have 31% max ES from 3 nodes behind CI. It is joke if you ask me (10.3% per passive point is nothing). Thats it! Over the years you have been nerfing CI over and over, while there is not a single reason to do so anymore. When I'm running public party map runs all I can see are low life builds.... guess why. Don't u think it's time to give us something in return? Like some interesting full life mechanics or at least more ES gated behind the damn keystone? I agree with all of them. Neither of people's arguments show any benefit of CI nowadays (except from Melee Damage on Full Life for melees) All of my 3 CI characters are total crap with their older builds (with few adjustments to the new mechanics). The Damage may be a little boosted, but their defences are totally way low. For example I could easily do Palace Map (with one of my chars), but now I find it hard even on Act 4! The problem is the nerf of life leech I guess which was my greatest defence. Anyway, seems like most CI builds are nearly impossible to function, so we need MAJOR changes or even new totally different builds. In my opinion the basic problem is that op Mirrored Low Life / CI builds (with like 20k ES and 500k DPS) are still viable, when the average CI build (with like 9k ES and 30k DPS) is not. I think they should consider it as imbalance, and give a chance to lower budget builds too somehow. I expect a buff of CI soon, otherwise most of us will HAVE to make a new start with LIFE builds. CI >> Life Last edited by sonafab#2148 on Jul 16, 2015, 7:32:45 AM	Posted by sonafab#2148 on Jul 16, 2015, 7:30:28 AM Quote this Post
Bump To Die Is Not An Option, To Fight Until DIESync Is The Only Answer. ☺☻☺ Happy Hunting Exiles.	Posted by GrumpyBear5043#3315 on Jul 17, 2015, 1:32:13 AM Quote this Post
CI has been terrible when compared to alternatives for as far as I can remember.	Posted by _Elminister_#6625 on Jul 17, 2015, 1:44:10 AM Quote this Post
" SL4Y3R wrote: " Diphal wrote: " SuperMotte wrote: The whole argument is useless when you only look at it from one side (casters) and refuse to see the other side. Man, I know that BR had a way better synergy with melee / bow users. Why it was nerfed as a whole then? And like I said, I don't mind that BR was removed in particular. I mind another advantage of CI being removed. Quite big difference. All I mentioned was we could use some buff in return... like a bit increased ES gated behind CI keystone or some full life passive. Low lifers have Pain Attunement which is huge. We have nothing. You have a larger buffer of blue life. You have a larger buffer of life against elemental attacks, not physical attacks. Physical damage is basically killing most characters right now.	Posted by allbusiness#6050 on Jul 17, 2015, 1:44:33 AM Quote this Post
bump	Posted by fae76#3960 on Jul 20, 2015, 5:16:52 AM Quote this Post
" " SuperMotte wrote: 7) YOU CAN, and Frenzy Charges where heavily buffed by getting MORE damage. Stack enough frenzy charges and you have a huge benefit... EVEN AS CASTER. And it gives a attack speed and life leech. How are you going to stack them as a caster? Please enlighten me. You are going to use Frenzy just to keep frenzy charges up? Or you are going to swap some way more usefull aura with Poacher's mark? You are not going to invest into frenzy charges as a caster when u have no reliable way how to stack them. Right now, casters have an esier way of stacking up frenzy charges if you want, just link your ice spell of choice to Ice Bite and enjoy. Even just 3 charges (easy attainable with packs of small mobs) is a noticeable difference in dps, and you don't really need to invest into cold nodes to achieve it (personal choice is GC+SE+IB), although crit builds will have a much easier time proccing it of course. Last edited by Aalzien#6244 on Jul 20, 2015, 5:58:14 AM	Posted by Aalzien#6244 on Jul 20, 2015, 5:57:48 AM Quote this Post
" Aalzien wrote: Right now, casters have an esier way of stacking up frenzy charges if you want, just link your ice spell of choice to Ice Bite and enjoy. Even just 3 charges (easy attainable with packs of small mobs) is a noticeable difference in dps, and you don't really need to invest into cold nodes to achieve it (personal choice is GC+SE+IB), although crit builds will have a much easier time proccing it of course. Ice Bite is hardly replacement of Blood Rage for someone whoe does not deal any cold damage, especially after nerfs of heralds. Why do u even mention that there are other ways how to stack frenzy charges? Yes there are many ways how to stack all charges, not just Frenzy ones. But they are quite different. It's like you would say I could use Frenzy to stack them. Yes I could... but I would have to give up on many things in order to get a little. It wouldn't be worth it. Blood Rage was great for CI as it was. And now its gone... and other ways of stacking frenzy charges are simply not an option. And Ice Bite? You would hardly invest 1 socket on your main skill in order to get 3 Frenzy Charges. There are many reasons for it, you would lose more than you would get (compared to some other support gems). Also it's chance on killing FROZEN enemy, therefore usable for someone who does huge hits with ice damage. For me as Incinerate, I wouldn't freeze anything even with Added Cold Damage and Herald of Ice (because of recent changes to status alignments). Last edited by Diphal#5777 on Jul 20, 2015, 6:26:25 AM	Posted by Diphal#5777 on Jul 20, 2015, 6:09:13 AM Quote this Post