Second part Act 4 lore feels extremely rushed

Good read. pretty much hits the bullseye.

In act 2, even bandits have their own territory and henchmen (mobs even named after them) to handle you first before you get to them. Now we have been reading unknowns like Doedre & Shavronne through their own unique items and this makes you wonder how it will be if you meet them in their own terms. Daresso, Kaom and Voll gave us that feeling of wonder and "calm before the storm" so to speak with their own land to rule or lord over.

I like Act 4 especially after the recent patch. But the second part could of been done so much better. The Belly, Piety and Harvest feels submitted because of a deadline than planned. Pietys' role to stall you before embarking on the harvest is understandable. She has to do it in that claustrophobic place. But from there, its a big "what the hell" jump to Malachai. Unimpressive cells cordoning off god like characters in white placeholder doors through a maze smaller than a regular tileset is when everything felt abrupt. Each of them should have a grander, awe-inspiring ambient parallel universe that can speak about their twisted machinations without uttering a word. Like Solaris is for Dialla and Lunaris is for Piety (even a Grand Daddy Crab has his own turf). "Harvest" may be done where they lord over something. The belly was described as if nothing is "real" anyway so a portal to their world or to quote their teaser bring you to a "nightmare beyond your imagination" will suffice.

Maybe there is just no time for it. But cruel might have been slashed off the difficulty rung if it did happen. In no way I am trying to downplay GGGs efforts after a long arduous beta testing. It's quite a successful launch so far. The artwork, ambience, the whole second part was good but sadly not epic.

So what happens to Dialla now? Is she just going to die, like any day now since her immortality has been removed? I thought that the note Malachi left by the Rapture machine insinuated that he lied about needing to use her essence, but he was actually lying about going there to kill the Beast in the first place. I guess I just need to go revisit some of these things.

All I know is that I'll be disappointed if she's out of the story from here on, because I love her dialog.

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monsoonrider wrote:

In act 3, even bandits have their own territory and henchmen (mobs even named after them) to handle you first before you get to them. Now we have been reading unknowns like Doedre & Shavronne through their own unique items and this makes you wonder how it will be if you meet them in their own terms. Daresso, Kaom and Voll gave us that feeling of wonder and "calm before the storm" so to speak with their own land to rule or lord over.

I like Act 4 especially after the recent patch. But the second part could of been done so much better. The Belly, Piety and Harvest feels submitted because of a deadline than planned.

So true, what you say. Act 1-3 had solid progression and each boss got their time. As you say, the second part of Act 4 definitely feels like filler content rushed out. It would have been so epic to take us on a journey exploring each of these big name characters instead of just what amounted to a boss-run.

I really hope GGG goes back and reworks Act 4...otherwise I fear it will be that awkward Act everybody rushes through to get one skill point at the end. But I still adore PoE and love GGG of course!

I'm actually a little saddened (I guess? Would be odd to be RELIEVED) to see that I was far from alone in how I felt about the story arc for Act IV.

Make no mistake, in terms of lore, and character development, (particularly for Malachai, Kaom, and Daresso) we were introduced to some of the most compelling material I've ever seen put to an RPG. Granted, in terms of lore, PoE has managed to stand out, by basing its events on something well-constructed, yet FAR from cliché; the Vaal, the Eternal Empire, Virtue Gems, Karui Invasion, Purity Rebellion, and Cataclysm... All of these elements brought together one of the most engaging settings I'd ever seen.

And in terms of that setting, Act IV definitely managed to build onto that. I was initially worried (pre-beta-access) on how Kaom and Daresso would be, but I will say that in terms of their lore and how it fleshed them out, I was quite impressed. Even Voll was given some extra development.

However, what was the problem was how it was all tied together. It really DID feel kind of haphazard. While I WAS appreciative of the new variety of terrain (even as monochromatic some of it may have felt) I was nonetheless pleased to see a shift from prior tilesets.

Half of it was a matter of writing; some of it DID feel a little off-center. Diala's speech in some cases, such as once you reach the Rapture Device, seemed a bit uncharacteristic, though later, she shifted back to what was more expected.

A lot of it, though, came from how jolting and jumbled-together the progression felt. The transition from the Scepter to the Aqueduct into Highgate felt fine enough (as did the next steps into the Mines) but beyond that, simply put:

• On arriving you are INSTANTLY given the main quest to eventually lead you to the end: "Oh, you're here, now go kill the Beast."
• But first, you're made to go just a single zone right next to town... To go fight a big villain who had no real development for the role?
• Again, there's no solid explanation as to why there's a portal each for Kaom and Daresso just SITTING there next to the Rapture Device. While I felt the zones beyond the portals were amazing, the presence of those portals... Just didn't really seem to fit right there.
• Likewise, while much of the Belly of the Beast felt alright, once it got to The Harvest it felt REALLY closed together. Again, a sudden "You need to fetch these three MacGuffins from bosses right in this zone." Given the fact that you have to re-kill the Godless Three any future time to reach Malachai, GGG should just do away with the organs themselves, and just re-write the quest and dialog to fit.
• Finally, with Malachai himself; the first half seemed fair enough, but the second half... Again, the Hearts, while an interesting mechanic to give him the complexity to feel like a true "final boss," felt cliché'd. Lastly, with his death... He just whines that you don't know what you've done?

For the final one, perhaps it could be solved a bit through some clearer writing... Before, with Diala granting a portal to Cruel/Merciless atop the Scepter of God, it spoke a bit from her mysterious nature and power. But a dying Malachai who's simply bluntly opposing you... It makes no sense.

The best justification I could come is, instead, implying a way that, even in victory over him in battle, the protagonist can never win; the portal to "Twilight Strand - Cruel" isn't just advancing to further arbitrary difficulty, it's the character being drawn further and further into the Nightmare.

But in the end, as it stands, Act IV offers, lore/writing-wise, so MUCH promise... But right now it feels like a mess. I do imagine that GGG may have to re-write Act IV a bit in the future, which perhaps may solve a lot of these issues.

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ACGIFT wrote:

However, what was the problem was how it was all tied together. It really DID feel kind of haphazard. While I WAS appreciative of the new variety of terrain (even as monochromatic some of it may have felt) I was nonetheless pleased to see a shift from prior tilesets.

Indeed the pacing and flow of Act 4 was very strange. The first few areas were fine, but the Aquaducts and Dried Lake really need more cosmetic clutter, more ambient sounds, and better lighting. Adding some torches and warm lighting would really improve the appearance of what is otherwise very drab settings.

"

ACGIFT wrote:

A lot of it, though, came from how jolting and jumbled-together the progression felt. The transition from the Scepter to the Aqueduct into Highgate felt fine enough (as did the next steps into the Mines) but beyond that, simply put:

• On arriving you are INSTANTLY given the main quest to eventually lead you to the end: "Oh, you're here, now go kill the Beast."
• But first, you're made to go just a single zone right next to town... To go fight a big villain who had no real development for the role?
• Again, there's no solid explanation as to why there's a portal each for Kaom and Daresso just SITTING there next to the Rapture Device. While I felt the zones beyond the portals were amazing, the presence of those portals... Just didn't really seem to fit right there.

Voll's presence made little story-sense. As others have noted, why is Voll walking around a dried lake for ages? Is he stupid? Is he cursed? Why isn't he long dead? I wish they'd add another zone past the dried lake, a sort of cursed fortress for Voll with some dialogue and explanation.

And as you say, those portals for Kaom and Daresso...the zones are fine but the portals make no sense. We need to know why and how otherwise the story is just a series of contrivances...PoE deserves better.

"

ACGIFT wrote:

Likewise, while much of the Belly of the Beast felt alright, once it got to The Harvest it felt REALLY closed together. Again, a sudden "You need to fetch these three MacGuffins from bosses right in this zone." Given the fact that you have to re-kill the Godless Three any future time to reach Malachai, GGG should just do away with the organs themselves, and just re-write the quest and dialog to fit.

Yes, this part was wacky. Three organs? Why wouldn't Malachai destroy his only weakness...and to put those three very iconic PoE lore figures in little boss alcoves...it demeans them greatly and makes them caricatures of the true versions we've read about for years.

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ACGIFT wrote:

Lastly, with his death... He just whines that you don't know what you've done?

The ending was way too abrupt and silly as many have said. Having the portal to Twilight Strand right in the boss room is a big letdown.

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ACGIFT wrote:

But in the end, as it stands, Act IV offers, lore/writing-wise, so MUCH promise... But right now it feels like a mess. I do imagine that GGG may have to re-write Act IV a bit in the future, which perhaps may solve a lot of these issues.

So true. I've championed the great lore and writing and voicework of PoE for years...but Act 4...I'm so sorry to say...it isn't good. Please rework it GGG to match your Act 1-3 standards!

PS: GGG, semi-serious, but perhaps offer a "Act 4 Renovation" supporter pack! I'll buy it, not joking!

The godless three theme should definitely be more developed. I really like the idea of each of them ruling over a two or three areas. The portals to Kaom and Deresso - great, but they shouldn't just be sitting there - the player should work to get to those or make them work somehow. Them just being there doesn't make much sense.

Having said all this, I really love the game and I greatly appreciate all the effort that went into the new expansion. GGG rules!

act 4 lore is complete garbage. no clue what's going on, who is there why and why I even have to fight them. there's a "beast"... and that's all I know about it. total rushjob

yeah and the worst part is certainly that you get no reward for killing malachai. not even a text. so bad

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Brumbek wrote:

All these amazing lore characters thrown about in trivial ways. So much potential.

THIS, so much!!!

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LMTR14 wrote:

yeah and the worst part is certainly that you get no reward for killing malachai. not even a text. so bad

I'm guessing they will have a solution for this like Dialla was after killing Dominus. Being acknowledged for what you have just done is really wanting after killing a difficult boss like Malachai.

All the speculation in this thread about the events leading up to the player's time in Wraeclast just goes to show that the game doesn't convey the narrative effectively. The history is quite well established, but its dispersed among too many different sources to really come together. A lot of it comes in the Library in Act 3, but not all the environmental lore shows up at once, so the player only ever gets it in bits and pieces, often out of order.

(Somebody on reddit went to the trouble of compiling every piece of lore in the game; Act 3 is worth a read, though some of it seems to conflict with the comics)

I think cinematics could help a lot in providing narrative cohesion---with an on/off switch in the menu, of course. No need for Blizard-style million-dollar CGI. Just some still images with voice-over explaining a bit about Oriath and Wraeclast to start, why are people exiled, etc. The Thief series of stealth games did this really well. Even with a handful of narrated tomes, Diablo 1 managed to create an atmosphere that none of its sequels could equal. It would be a good chance to show off the game's concept art, too.

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Brumbek wrote:

Indeed the pacing and flow of Act 4 was very strange. The first few areas were fine, but the Aquaducts and Dried Lake really need more cosmetic clutter, more ambient sounds, and better lighting. Adding some torches and warm lighting would really improve the appearance of what is otherwise very drab settings....Voll's presence made little story-sense. As others have noted, why is Voll walking around a dried lake for ages? Is he stupid? Is he cursed? Why isn't he long dead? I wish they'd add another zone past the dried lake, a sort of cursed fortress for Voll with some dialogue and explanation.

Have to disagree there. I love the drab look. Also, about Voll, I agree it isn't well explained (you have to find the right tome in act 3 library). He was escorting (at the head of his army) Malachai, Dialla, and the Rapture device to Highgate to purge the empire of any and all impurities. Malachai played him for a fool, and the army caught the brunt of the cataclysm. He is dead. If you look closely he's a skeleton (and Oyun calls him the "Brittle Emperor".

As for why he's in the lake, that really does need better explanation. The ranger's one-liner on entering gives a clue (she says the lake was drained for Sarn's toilets), implying that the lake was already dry before the cataclysm. There's not much room in Highgate for a whole army, so Voll camped out in the lake bed to wait for Malachai to do his thing. But this location is still confusing, because the player uses the acquaduct to enter Highgate, while Voll was probably taking the actual land road.

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lazycalm2 wrote:

Good thing most ARPG fans don't care much about story then

Unfortunately true. The "A" in ARPG is what sells, and RPG (immersion, lore, etc) usually gets the shaft. Putting aside theory crafting, most people play PoE like Space Invaders and are satisfied with that. Suspension of disbelief is a non-issue. They get mad when somebody calls for combat where each encounter is more significant/requires more tactical play. Their favourite counter arguments are usually along the lines of "That's not what ARPGs are about" or "The world has magic so why would you expect it to be realistic?", etc., etc.

I think both groups can be catered to---everyone likes loot and smashing mobs, while a atmosphere and immersion hurt no one. Unlikely, though, given the recent zone changes/removals. The seed is actually in GGG's own ideals: They've created a wonderfully rich universe, but their inspiration is Diablo 2, which had a great story (and obviously made great mechanical improvements in the genre), but which also lost some of what made D1's atmosphere so distinctive (never mind D3).

But even allowing for that, GGG has become more about the arcade experience over time. Can anyone see them ever again putting an empty level solely to create atmosphere (a la the blood trail leading to Brutus)? The grinders won't stand for useless space. Someone at GGG even tried to fill the Warden's Chambers with mobs. It took the community's most prolific supporter's influence to get it changed back.

It would be really interesting to see a Development Manifesto from GGG on lore/immersion/atmosphere. Tellingly, those subjects haven't merited one so far.