Dr. McB explains the economy in Path of Exile

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johnKeys wrote:

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Perq wrote:

Good read - kudos for the truth. Sadly, only few people realize that, and prefer going on and on about trade being a terrible thing.

trade is not a terrible thing. it makes the world go around.
trade as a focal point in a game that is an Action RPG, is.
note "focal point". meaning it can - heck, should - exist as another of the game's many features, but never be something the game itself revolves around.

as for "rain", though I did enjoy the "rain" in One Month Flashback and Exiles Everywhere. loved every second of it. I do understand "making it rain" is a mistake in the long run.
which is why I've been screaming "risk/reward" for 2+ years.
because "risk/reward" isn't "rain". it's earning whatever loot you may need (and not with town-flipping heaps of Exalts), and having the game take "educated guesses" about what you may need next.
the 2nd part btw, is already partially implemented. see the Gems that Vendors sell.

I thought you stopped making posts on risk vs reward because inherently it was fruitless because loot pintas games have no risk vs reward mechanic other then more reward for no risk.

I like how you get the curve "out of your arss" so to say on first page.
Where your numbers com from ? don't say anything I told you the answer.

Yeah Scrotie ain't you heard? It's the 1920s in this forum. Logical positivism or gtfo.

I'm certainly not discrediting any of the information that's been provided in this thread, but is this being taken a bit too seriously? What I mean is, isn't the question are people having fun more important than whether or not this game has a hyper-realistic, complicated economy? Allow me to clarify what I mean...

The general idea seems to be that the economy in the game is good for PoE and the players. For the sake of argument, let's assume 100,000 people actively play this game (just an easy to use number, I have no idea of the actual amount). Let's further assume that of those 100k, 70k are 'hardcore' players, and want the trading to remain as it is, while the other 30k are casuals that want no part of trading and would prefer the game was entirely 'self-found'. Going back to the idea that the current system is 'good' for both PoE and it's players, are we sure that's truly the case? It might be good for the 70k that play now, but what if by changing to the more traditional (and more casual) farming for items instead of currency system, PoE lost those 70k players but gained 300k more, because the game became more 'accessible' to the average gamer?

Not only does this change benefit the initial 30k 'casual' gamers, but the changes allowed the game to reach a much wider audience than before, thereby making it 'better' for both the majority of gamers (who now have another game to play) and GGG (more opportunity for revenue) than it was previously. Now this all hinges on a big assumption on my part (that more people would play if the system changed), but the point I'm trying to make is, regardless of all the facts and information presented in this thread, I'm not convinced that the system is actually what's best for the game or its players. I truly believe there is room for much improvement, not only on the loot system in general (not enough good self-found items), but also on the currency system (do we really need so many different orbs?), the (non-existent) trading system, and the crafting system (HORRENDOUS chance to actually roll decent or better items, not to mention that mirrors are one of the worst ideas one could come up with in a game that so heavily counts on the player to trade for currencies and craft items).

I really think there's a lot of room to improve on all of this, and by doing so, they could turn an overly complex and convoluted system into a one of the most interesting and fun crafting systems in any game to date.

Forgive me for not reading everything in the thread (I read most of the OP though) but wasn't the biggest issue with trade isn't that it exists, but that the system to enable it is inconvenient?

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Vicariously wrote:

is this being taken a bit too seriously? What I mean is, isn't the question are people having fun more important than whether or not this game has a hyper-realistic, complicated economy? Allow me to clarify what I mean...

The general idea seems to be that the economy in the game is good for PoE and the players. For the sake of argument, let's assume 100,000 people actively play this game (just an easy to use number, I have no idea of the actual amount). Let's further assume that of those 100k, 70k are 'hardcore' players, and want the trading to remain as it is, while the other 30k are casuals that want no part of trading and would prefer the game was entirely 'self-found'. Going back to the idea that the current system is 'good' for both PoE and it's players, are we sure that's truly the case? It might be good for the 70k that play now, but what if by changing to the more traditional (and more casual) farming for items instead of currency system, PoE lost those 70k players but gained 300k more, because the game became more 'accessible' to the average gamer?

First off, of course fun is more important. I'm having fun.

Casuals are truly one of the main benefactors of trade, as I explained in my OP. I find it strange you classify trading as a "hardcore" activity and "self-found" as a casual one, because self-found is the more limiting playstyle. Your classification is roughly equivalent to calling Warbands "hardcore" and Tempest "casual." Seems like Bizarro logic to me. Perhaps you just mean social/asocial?

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Vicariously wrote:

is this being taken a bit too seriously? What I mean is, isn't the question are people having fun more important than whether or not this game has a hyper-realistic, complicated economy? Allow me to clarify what I mean...

The general idea seems to be that the economy in the game is good for PoE and the players. For the sake of argument, let's assume 100,000 people actively play this game (just an easy to use number, I have no idea of the actual amount). Let's further assume that of those 100k, 70k are 'hardcore' players, and want the trading to remain as it is, while the other 30k are casuals that want no part of trading and would prefer the game was entirely 'self-found'. Going back to the idea that the current system is 'good' for both PoE and it's players, are we sure that's truly the case? It might be good for the 70k that play now, but what if by changing to the more traditional (and more casual) farming for items instead of currency system, PoE lost those 70k players but gained 300k more, because the game became more 'accessible' to the average gamer?

First off, of course fun is more important. I'm having fun.

Casuals are truly one of the main benefactors of trade, as I explained in my OP. I find it strange you classify trading as a "hardcore" activity and "self-found" as a casual one, because self-found is the more limiting playstyle. Your classification is roughly equivalent to calling Warbands "hardcore" and Tempest "casual." Seems like Bizarro logic to me. Perhaps you just mean social/asocial?

Please don't think I'm saying that a person can't enjoy a game being complex, I certainly didn't mean it that way.

As far as the hardcore/casual meaning: from what I can tell, 'hardcore' PoE players tend to spend the amount of time that is necessary to really 'take advantage' of the trade system in such a way that it really benefits them. More casual players tend to avoid trading all together, or if they do trade, it's only for the occasional 1 ex or less trade for some random unique they need for a build, which is a task that could be accomplished just as easily with an auction house feature.

This is one of those situations where I find that it's easier to explain my viewpoint through talking rather than typing, but in any case, I think this trading system takes time and dedication to use properly, whereas a more casual gamer who may only have 1-2 hours a night (or perhaps even less) is going to bypass trading entirely and just farm for gear instead. That's what I was driving at with the hardcore vs casual comparison. To players that never trade (the casual players), I believe self-found is actually the less limiting of the two in their case, because they have a 0% chance to acquire an item through a feature they won't use (trading), but at least some chance to acquire it as a drop in a game that focuses more on farming for loot rather than trading and crafting.

Sorry if this isn't coming out right, having a hard time organizing my thoughts properly tonight, hah.

(Edit: Some clarifications: the drop rates in PoE are intentionally bad because they want the emphasis to be on trading and crafting. Also, my friends and I played quite a bit, perhaps at times as much as a 'hardcore' player might, but we despised trading, we much preferred farming for loot rather than creating it. So, this is why my point of view is that the system in PoE isn't really all that beneficial, because from my own personal experience and that of my friends, and a few assumptions about how little casual gamers actually take advantage of trading, I feel that the system as it is, isn't actual optimal for the game or its players. It didn't benefit my friends and I at all, and because I don't believe that we are unique snowflakes, I'm sure there many other players with a similar experience.)

How is spamming trade and alt tabbing to use third party sites a social activity? The most fun you'll ever have socializaing in this game is trolling global chat or general discussion. Guild chat too if yours is lucky enough to not be dead. Spamming trade chat not so much. But hey, just having it around is a great excuse to not have to work on one of the most important facets of your game.

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Kilgamesh wrote:

How is spamming trade and alt tabbing to use third party sites a social activity? The most fun you'll ever have socializaing in this game is trolling global chat or general discussion. Guild chat too if yours is lucky enough to not be dead. Spamming trade chat not so much. But hey, just having it around is a great excuse to not have to work on one of the most important facets of your game.

It's really just a form of forced socialization, and it does a poor job of it. MMO's are superior in that regard, because the zones are shared and not instanced. Much easier to make new 'friends' and interact with others in that type of an environment. Obviously there are technical limitations as to why PoE doesn't have shared zones outside of towns, but I wouldn't want it that way even if they could (I don't play aRPGs to socialize, but that's just me).

I agree that for a game that essentially revolves around the idea of trading and crafting rather than self-found, saying that the current setup leaves much to be desired would be something of an understatement.