So GGG, are 2handers going to be treated fairly by global +flat damage in 2.0?

That is to say, are flat damage affixes (wrath/anger, heralds, x-y physical/fire/cold/lightning damage affixes on gear, etc) going to be amplified when using 2handers? Or will some analogue to the 'damage effectiveness' of spells be implemented into weapon types as well?

Local flat damage on 2handers are stronger than local flat damage on 1handers to account for 2handers' higher base dps, but non-local sources right now don't distinguish between the two, much to the severe disadvantage of 2handers. With all attention given to providing flat damage to spells as well (anger and wrath giving added damage to spells, new +damage to spells affixes on weapons), and all the attention given to helping melees, it's hard to believe that 2handers are still getting the short end of the stick with regards to flat damage boosts.

Considering the price 2handers pay to supposedly have offensive superiority, having that superiority diminished by global flat damage favoring 1handers is beyond ludicrous. Please, tell me GGG is going to address this at some point.

I agree, not only that but the elemental rolls on 2h weapons are bonkers low.

Not even sure if doubling the local elemental damage on 2h would make it come even close to those 2.0+ aps foils and daggers. Attack speed is king in this game.

2H seems to always fall short in this game, be it no viable defense mechanisms or screwed up scaling.

2h weapong already have more dammage.

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EzBreesy wrote:

2h weapong already have more dammage.

I start thinking you're a troll, sir.

I think the intent is that 2H weapons are scaled at least partly by STR, and not flat damage. All 2H weapons have a STR requirement, while foils need 200+ DEX. Granted the scaling from STR is much weaker, it also gives you base hp.
I have no excuse for bad elemental scaling on 2H weapons.

Well, attack speed is much more uniform on weapons in beta, slow weapons got a speed boost and fast weapons got a reduction so the difference is not that high anymore. Every weapon type has at least 1,3 aps weapon to offer and the fastest weapons around (claws and rapiers) only go up to 1,6.

That means the difference isn't high enough to warrant a dedicated fix. With the fastest rapier available your elemental build will do only 20% more dps compared to fastest 2H mace using the same setup, and higher ele rolls on 2H will bring the difference even lower.

I don't think 2H weapons should have an edge when this particular type of builds is concerned, games often don't follow common sense but there is no base for 2H weapons to scale elemental damage better. We could probably justify higher ele rolls by having more mass to hold the enchantment, but other sources should have nothing to do with how heavy the weapon you're swinging is.

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anone wrote:

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EzBreesy wrote:

2h weapong already have more dammage.

I start thinking you're a troll, sir.

I like 2 handers as they are ( prolly playing a staffer again ).

Comparison wise, highest rare elemental weapons on poe.trade show:

2h: Reaver Sword, 1.7 aps, 356 ele dps
1h: Elegant Foil, 2.16 aps, 335 ele dps

Now lets say that the ele foil drops down to 1.6 aps while the reaver sword stays at 1.35, you are looking at 2.03 aps or 315 elemental dps.

And you are looking at 19% more elemental dps from outside sources, which play a big part in all elemental builds, but i am fine with 2h weapons being slower, just makes no sense why 2 handed elemental rolls only at 150% value of 1h rolls when their elemental scaling with attack speed is limiting their elemental scaling also.

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raics wrote:

Well, attack speed is much more uniform on weapons in beta, slow weapons got a speed boost and fast weapons got a reduction so the difference is not that high anymore. Every weapon type has at least 1,3 aps weapon to offer and the fastest weapons around (claws and rapiers) only go up to 1,6.

That means the difference isn't high enough to warrant a dedicated fix. With the fastest rapier available your elemental build will do only 20% more dps compared to fastest 2H mace using the same setup, and higher ele rolls on 2H will bring the difference even lower.

I don't think 2H weapons should have an edge when this particular type of builds is concerned, games often don't follow common sense but there is no base for 2H weapons to scale elemental damage better. We could probably justify higher ele rolls by having more mass to hold the enchantment, but other sources should have nothing to do with how heavy the weapon you're swinging is.

Uniform attack speed doesn't solve that much in this regard. Attack speed matters to flat damage stuff, but that's generally an issue when comparing weapons within the same class, and that's a different story than comparing 1handers to 2handers. In this regard, it's more a matter of base damage, less so about attack speed.

White 2handers deal about 65-75% more base dps than white 1handers of the same tier, regardless of attack speed (less when you start adding local affixes, since even the amplified local flat damage affixes aren't pumped up enough to keep that dps edge in line).

Compare a Lion Sword to a Vaal Blade, both at 1.3 aps: Lion Sword's average damage per hit is 84, Vaal Blade's is 49.5. Despite both having the same attack speed, do you think equipping something like Meginord's Girdle helps them both out equally? Hell no... sure, they might get the same 15 average damage for doing so, but that 15 damage makes for a much larger %dps increase on the Vaal Blade than on the Lion Sword.

This isn't about 2handers having 'an edge'. This is about 2handers being treated FAIR. Don't confuse the two. And in a game where wearing more clothes magically makes you MORE evasive and skeletons can bleed, i don't think common sense matters much.

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Shppy wrote:

Compare a Lion Sword to a Vaal Blade, both at 1.3 aps: Lion Sword's average damage per hit is 84, Vaal Blade's is 49.5. Despite both having the same attack speed, do you think equipping something like Meginord's Girdle helps them both out equally? Hell no... sure, they might get the same 15 average damage for doing so, but that 15 damage makes for a much larger %dps increase on the Vaal Blade than on the Lion Sword.

I've already mentioned that a few times on various occasions. The problem was top tier flat phys on, say, an ambusher is almost equal to weapon base damage and on reaver sword it's only two thirds of base, it's the main reason for relatively low gap between perfectly crafted 1H and 2H weapons.

Although I don't think scaling from outside sources should be accounted for because that should be something that fast weapon excel at, it's something you expect in games like this unless they pull off something lame like Torchlight and scale dps instead of damage to simplify balancing. However, I agree it could be tweaked a bit on weapon level to at least get similar gains from weapon mods.