What areas are random generated?
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Some areas simply can't have that open-to-exploration feel and still maintain their identity. The Ledge and most of the beach areas are like this. The Ledge is a ledge... Can't really expand on that too much. Beaches are the same way.
The areas where randomization truly shines are underground dungeons and the larger outdoor areas. Sure, the entrances/exits are in the same general direction, but the features of the area will be random. I would hate for this game to turn into the D2-type randomization where everyone just followed a wall until they found the next area because there is absolutely no way to tell where you need to go. Thousands of people used map hacks simply because of the randomization. With the way it works here, you can learn the basic direction of entrances/exits, so you get to experience the middle of the map on your way there without feeling the need to skirt the edge of the map the entire time. Closed Beta/Alpha Tester back after a 10-year hiatus.
First in the credits! |
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" Well, it could occasionally go south-east instead of north-east. Or even north or south-west. A lot of the outdoor maps could be that tiny bit more random-feeling by just mirroring or flipping them. The indoor areas are much more random, thanks to a completely different system of randomisation compared to outdoors. About the D2 reference, a lot of the areas in D2 weren't all that random either - for instance kurast was always a big square, the various act 4 areas were always pretty much the same, etc. Last edited by Malice#2426 on Nov 16, 2011, 6:23:15 PM
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"Could have a main ledge and some randomly added, possibly dead end secondary paths and crevasses (this might require better wall hiding...). Maybe randomly add a cave entrance. Could have the ledge break at one point and require taking a small, steep footpath to a second ledge... And of course the flipping. |
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All areas are designed such that they are coherent, portray a given theme (Ledge/Beach/Lake/River/etc) and fun to play - then within those constraints the tiles, rooms, and form of the areas are jiggered around to make them unique each time.
There is a tension between fully random and fully predetermined. Full random represents noise, static, chaos: patterns that cannot be used by a human mind. Full predetermined represents a fully artist designed space that is exactly the same everytime. The first is undesirable, and the last is not in the design of this game for the purpose of replayablity and unpredictability (enabling long play and exploration). The key is finding the right balance in between. If the areas are too strict they become the same each time. If they are more random they lack much detail and are unable to give the player direction and interesting play spaces. If you look at D2s maps, they aren't really all that random. But it seems they are random enough to be unexpected and unpredictable each time. So looking at the new normal difficulty Terraces area, it is quite similar each time, with some changes in where the paths lead. The macro path is quite similar, but the micro paths are much different. Perhaps it could use more variations? Level Designer/Dungeoneer
Always post a screenshot with /debug command entered into the chat window. First stop for Common Technical Problems | |
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Joel, I quite disagree with you about d2 maps.
There's a lot of randomness in most maps but they have static rooms. Those rooms are always the same but are connected to each other differently. Just look at durance of hate lvl 2. Also, the one thing that lack randomness in PoE maps is that the next zone is always at the same direction with the exception of level areas. Take the crossroads for example. You could make it random about which way is where. |
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" what |
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" [french accent]Huesh, now, barr-bear-ee-onne. Yoo arre not un ar-teest. Lette ze manne doo his verk.[/french accent] IRON MAN
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" Pure technical fully random is a bit tricky to achieve as when you try to random something you start out with "seed" and from that you "random out". If you know the seed then you might be able "calculate" out the "random" hence its not random any more. Totally random (Chaos/chaotic) is quite hard to find, a quite good example is a flag waving in the wind is pretty close. Its almost impossible to foresee how the flag will wave in the wind. Maybe im just mumbling on my own here and probably some other "math genius" peoples can explain it even better ;) Last edited by Moxh#4686 on Nov 17, 2011, 3:35:27 AM
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" This would lead to always exploring the edges of the map, pretty annoying in my opinion. Placing the exit always in the same direction makes it coherent and gives some identity to each areas. I disagree with the one who said d3 dungeons feel more random, I've always felt the opposite. In my opinion, indoor dungeons and underground caves is where PoE shines. Open areas could be better. Among open areas, I think riverside is pretty good because you have to cross the rivers but you never really know where is the passage. Maybe other areas need more walls and gates as well. Notably, just following a road is not fun. Build of the week #2 : http://tinyurl.com/ce75gf4
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"yeah probably since i don't see the connection between a discussion of computers using prngs and an elucidation of the statement that "Full random represents noise, static, chaos: patterns that cannot be used by a human mind." especially in the context of level generation :P |
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