What really is an Action RPG. Is PoE the characteristic example?

Hello, this is something i was wondering for some time. I 've had my share of arguments on the matter in the past on this forum, where people tend to consider only the diablo model as an Action RPG. So what really is an Action RPG, fast gameplay, slaying hordes of monsters, picking up loot and relying mostly on having no control over your character besides moving him and attacking, from a panoramic perspective?

I was flamed on "favourite ARPGs" kind of threads for mentioning Dark SOuls or The witcher 2 or even skyrim, being told that these are not action RPGs, especially skyrim. Now i cannot beleive how can argue that Dark Souls or The Witcher are not action RPGs. I mean they really are action-combat games, largely skill based with very heavy RPG elements, but really, even with skyrim. I 've seen far more "action-adventure" games resembling skyrim than PoE. So what really is an action RPG? The diablo model? Something that is not turn based or tactical team play-like baldur's gate- and yet has RPG elements? Seems like it. For me it is a game with heavy RPG element's but it's combat is heavily action based.

In that perspective, to me, even Skyrim which is not so heavy on combat, like SOuls series, feels more like an action game than PoE, which feels to me more like a traditional RPG by comparison. Why? If you think about it, as an example, on skyrim you block, dodge, evade, choosing between strong or light attacks, and even score critical strikes MANUALLY, unlike PoE where all these mechanics are determined by internal engine calculations, related to the traditional pen and paper "dice rolling", which resembles far more a traditional RPG. The control you have over your character to do things manually is far more limited. Most of the "skill" elements in PoE are related to building your character correctly, and planning against certain enemies, areas or bosses your STRATEGY ahead, rather than your real time combat skills, whic again is an element of more traditional RPGs. Also gear is VERY important, far more than the souls series where you can complete the game naked if you are skilled enough.

I am not flaming PoE in ayway, nor i am really implying that it is not an ARPG. i am just curious about why people on this forum choose to dismiss any game that does not follow the Diablo model as not being an Action RPG, even calling the clasifications in the wiki or sever reviewrs as silly. So what do you think that really constitutes an Action RPG?

Well, in the past, you said Arpg and you thought of diablo, whereas elder scroll type of games were more open world with more freedom. Nowadays many features have been assimilated from other games, making them all ARPGs, in a sense.

People are way too hung up on genres.

You can call it a virtual ping pong simulation if you want, but poe is a game that I enjoy. That is all.

Stop trying to label things.

A game is a series of actions.

If you want to describe a game, stick to verbs and nouns.

Classifications are hard, because no game is "true" to any one genre. There are only generalizations. Some consider Skyrim an ARPG. Big deal. I don't.

I consider one of the defining properties of ARPGs a random loot generator. That's why Skyrim and Witcher don't satisfy my ARPG urge, while games like PoE, Sacred, TQ:IT and of course D2 feel like ARPGs to me. Skyrim has too much of it's "end game loot" quest driven, or crafted... which makes it more of a RPG.

Another aspect for me of ARPG is replay. I don't play these games to get devoted to a single character and to play it to the exclusion of all others. I play a number of characters... In PoE's case seven. In Skyrim, I played through three times, with different builds, but I found that replay wasn't "fun". PoE doesn't lose it's fun on replay. Again though... that's just based on my play and my opinion.

I consider Borderlands an ARPG... although it's a FPS hybrid. Skyrim has enough ARPGish stuff in it to definitely earn it a -ARPG hybrid suffix.

Yep i agree with that sticking on labels is pointless. The thing that got me thinking about it, is precisely when i replied to thread like "your favourite ARPG" - saying The Witcher 2, and got flamed.

OP post is so full of wrong information I dont know where to begin.

Lets say PoE is just what it is. an MMOish loot grinder game based on the basic concepts of Diablo2, and integrated some good systems from other games like passive system form FF series, map system from TL.

PoE is most certainly not the game that focuses on manual skill at the moment of play. Mainly because of its technical shortcomings, and some design decisions. It is a great theorycrafting game that plays out without need for manual skill.

It doesn't matter. When I talk about Action RPG, I talk about Diablo like games. What I'm really talking about, though, is not the arbitrary term Action RPG. I'm talking about a very specific type of game. Games like Diablo 1 and 2, Torchlicht, Titanquest, PoE, and so on.
In essence, it doesn't matter whether I call those kind of games Action RPGs or Potatoes. It's just an arbitrary word that has a certain meaning to it. I tend to stick to the definition of words that is accepted among most people since I think that's how language works.

poe is like a pseudo-mmo to me

who cares how you define a game? You are worried that you think it's an arpg when someone else doesn't? It doesn't matter. If it's fun play it. I don't see why you need to look any further into it. That goes for any game. What is there to gain in making sure your definition of the game you are playing lines up with anyone else's definition.