Critical Multiplier is a poor mechanic.

Having both critical chance and critical damage as scaling stats does not work from a balance standpoint. This problem has plagued Diablo 3 from the start, and is now being realized in this game as well. It just doesn't work to have 2 stats that scale multiplicative off one another. I realize that at this point it's not viable to remove critical damage and normalize it, but maybe you could keep this is mind for future projects. For Path of Exile however, you should consider lowering the efficiency of critical strikes as they are clearly over-performing.

Here are a few suggestions:
-Base critical on daggers and wands should be lowered to 6% and 7% respectively. This would make it so that swords, axes, and maces aren't so underwhelming with a critical build.

- Lower the efficiency of some critical nodes. Average nodes for increased weapon damage are around 12% and average nodes for critical chance are 15%. Yet there are nodes on the tree that give 80% critical chance for 1 point, and I don't see any nodes that gives 60% weapon damage.

- Why did you set the base critical multiplier to 150% and then have bonuses scale that? This makes the mechanic scale too well and is confusing. It's much easier if the multiplier is 100%, so that 10% critical multiplier actually makes criticals deal 10% increased damage instead of 15%. Much more intuitive this way.

EDIT: The problem isn't as bad as I first thought. The real issue is that daggers, bows, wands, ect. just have to much base crit. and too many efficient critical nodes on the tree.

80% increased crit does not warrant 80% increase in damage that comparison is wrong on so many levels.

and lets face it 80% of 5% is a meager 4% increase crit chance.
yes we are both talking about the 80% increased crit with bows every bow i know has a base of 5% both non-unique and unique

D3 doesn't have hit chance, and it also has the most boring itemization ever conceived. If you have to add "INCREASED GOLD PICKUP RADIUS" as a stat, then you know you've made a huge mistake in design. That's why crit is the only appealing build in d3.

I don't know the hardcore meta well enough anymore to speak for how they're building these days, so I don't know if crit is prevalent there as well as in softcore. Crit being common in softcore is par for the course.

No.

I'm glad they didn't employ you but I sure hope to god they don't listen to you

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agbudar wrote:

80% increased crit does not warrant 80% increase in damage that comparison is wrong on so many levels.

and lets face it 80% of 5% is a meager 4% increase crit chance.
yes we are both talking about the 80% increased crit with bows every bow i know has a base of 5% both non-unique and unique

When did I compare their damage increases? All I said was that 80% crit chance for 1 node is equivalent to 5 regular nodes of 15%. However, the highest weapon damage node is only 30%, which is equivalent to less than 3 regular nodes of 12% each. Therefore, assuming regular nodes are balanced with each other, that means several crit nodes are WAY over budget.

Also, just so you know, 80% increased weapon damage does not always equate to 80% more damage. If you already have 100% increased damage, that 80% is only increasing your total damage by 40%. This is why crit is overpowered. Most stats suffer from diminishing returns and become weaker as you stack more and more. Crit and crit multiplier work the opposite however and grow stronger as you stack more.

Oh yeah, and harbinger bows can roll over 9% base crit, so yeah...

uh, most crit chance like the 80% is based off the others being 20% not 15%.

So thats 4 regular nodes

Also most phys dmg weapon nodes I thought were about 8%, so that becomes just less than 4 regular nodes.

Not sure about math Cooley



But as for the base crit on bows, yeah it can get good, bow crit is currently more powerful than it should be

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Real_Wolf wrote:

uh, most crit chance like the 80% is based off the others being 20% not 15%.

So thats 4 regular nodes

Also most phys dmg weapon nodes I thought were about 8%, so that becomes just less than 4 regular nodes.

Not sure about math Cooley

I looked back over the tree, and it does seem like there is slightly more 20% crit nodes, so you may be right on that. The vast majority of weapon dmg nodes however are certainly 12%, although there are several 10% ones as well. I didn't see a single 8%...

Anyway, I made a spreadsheet and did the math on crit and crit damage. It's not actually as bad as I first thought. The real problem is that you can stack crit and crit damage very high while also retaining decent levels of attack speed and weapon damage. All these multipliers add up to such that not taking crit severely gimps your damage potential.

So I still think the best solution is to reduce the efficiency of critical chance and damage. Most complain about how outrageous the base crit of daggers, wands, and bows is, and so I think nerfing their base crit chance would be the place to start. Crit with the other weapons was actually pretty balanced when I did the math.

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Septile wrote:

D3 doesn't have hit chance, and it also has the most boring itemization ever conceived. If you have to add "INCREASED GOLD PICKUP RADIUS" as a stat, then you know you've made a huge mistake in design. That's why crit is the only appealing build in d3.

I don't know the hardcore meta well enough anymore to speak for how they're building these days, so I don't know if crit is prevalent there as well as in softcore. Crit being common in softcore is par for the course.

Oh you mean like "increased light radius" as a stat?

Give you a hint: Pickup radius has mechanical effects in D3 far beyond gathering your currency

Also D3 itemization is not significantly different from PoE at this point in time (and was barely different at release). Dressing it up in technical language and idiosyncracies does not make the systems different.

That said. Crit is kinda hard to balance. I'd personally lock multiplier excepting multiplier on uniques making trades in other areas (or the support gem). The current paradigm isn't offering much in the way of variability in terms of stats.

Hi

Critical multiplier is ridiculous if used right, like making sure you critical which in turn is making sure you got a good accuracy rating(80%-95%acc<___hint).

cheers

You do realize a 100% critical multiplier would mean they do regular damage, right?