More Forsaken Masters Information

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Emphasy wrote:

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I pray that I'm wrong this time but you did feature a toon similar to mine in build-of-the-week a wee while back. That's often the kiss of death.

You should expect a heavy hit on Auras, they terribly failed to do so last time when they thought they have nerfed Auras. So if a build is only viable because it runs a lot Auras that build might not be viable anymore. Although that is pure speculation.

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PandaBears wrote:

reply to: "Archwizard"
There are so many flaws in this, it's kind of unreal.

that's your opinion, not mine, or anyone else's. thanks for the thorough reply... yet you don't seem very good at considering alternate opinions than your own.

For One: Accept now that a 6L is meant to be a luxury item. The screenshot shows 5L as 150 fusings, a very reasonable price for anyone who actually will need one. This means that yes, you can buy good gear for cheaper than one 6L depending on build, and that has a lot to do with market forces.

[1]why should it be a luxury item? why should 5l be reasonable to get an 6l be unreasonable?

Why Trading Is Better Than Self Found

Trading is so good compared to self found because a fuckton of people play. Every single person in that group is getting drops. Due to RNG, most of those drops are no damned good for that person (yes yes, most are no damned good period). For each drop that is good, but not relevant, a potential sale is created.

Now, at the same time, there are people in there crafting items (yes, it happens). Most of those results are also no damned good, but some are, both in terms of upgrades and sellable gear.

So, lots of stuff to be sold is created, much more than any one person could ever hope to find on their own. Ever.

Unless trading is somehow directly impeded (be it via an orb tax, some form of account binding, or whatever) this will never change. Ever.

[2]ok, yet it's more fun to find good items than to trade for them. also, you have to find good items to be able to trade for good items.

And yes, given the power of the 6L, it does seem reasonable to have super low odds. My problems with fusings are never with the odds of 6L, they're with the crappy odds of 4L and how the RNG seems to be excessively biased towards 1L/2L.

6l isn't much more powerful than a 5l is compared to a 4l. support gems are great but still, 4l is commonly enough for a skill to be decent/usable.

For Two: Given that you know the outcome, and at level 6 you can trade for currency at more favorable rates than the existing vendors, you are getting serious beenfit from the masters.

agreed

For Three: Quests that require full parties using teamwork are such a bad idea that it might be the king of bad ideas. A ton of people like playing solo. A ton of people like playing in groups of fewer than 6 players. You cannot just tell all those players to suck it up and party.

ok, maybe a very challenging quest or series of quests then

For Four: Have you met the ARPG genre? There's so much luck and randomness involved it's a staple of these things. Just today I had a 6L Infernal Sword drop. It probably is worth more than most of my 1 month gear (minus certain uniques) combined. Shit happens, I got lucky. I've also only ever found 3 exalteds in my 2+ years of playing this game.

ok, why follow the standards of other games rather than GGG making their own decisions on how they want their game to be? favoring the players rather than the standards of the RPG genre should be considered.

For Five: Your Tab Rasa argument actually PROVES that 6L is a luxury compared to a nice 5L piece, which is reasonably priced.

[3]what do you mean by "proves that 6l is a luxury"? 6l tabula is not a very good item to use, for the reason already explained, the other attributes armor can offer are better than what the extra support gem can offer.

For Six: Favor the poor how? Tax people? This statement just makes no sense at all.

[4]favor the poor by increasing the chances of finding good items, and allowing them to be able to afford to 6l items.

For Seven: Increasing currency/drops/etc favors everyone, and the market will adjust as things happen. See the spoiler above.

[5]yeah, and the market has such a variety of values that some changes may help. for a good item to cost 1 exalt and an item a little better to cost 5-10 exalts seems unfair.

For Eight: This statement: "new players wouldn't feel so far behind the rest of the rich veterans" is the player's problem, not the game's. If you have a case of epeen envy, or Keeping Up With The Jonesesitis, you're doomed no matter what. The game cannot make your time here since July 2013 feel like mine Since OB started in Jan 2013 without shanking me or artificially boosting you. I SHOULD have more wealth in Standard than you do, simply by having been here longer (assuming all other things are equal, like trading, playtime, whatnot).

ok, if you play more you earn better items, so it will logically require a new player to play a similar amount of time to earn as many good items. however, if the chances were better for finding good items, new players would be able to afford good enough builds to play high level maps and play end-game areas. as it is, it would probably take a new player months before being able to play against atziri, and many more months to play uber atziri. that seems unfair when considering all of the hype around those bosses. denying new players access to new content like that seems unfair, and a way to make things fairer is to make it easier to find good and usable items.

For Nine: You clearly have no idea what goes on with Mirrors and all that. The items that get a mirror used on them are top of the line, incredible items that no one in their right mind would ever sell. There's a reason mirror services exist. You pay someone for the privilege of getting your own copy of an insane item. None of that has anything to do with anything else going on with 1.2 or the underlying issues. It's like worrying about what Bill Gates is doing with his time and money compared to someone making $40k/year.

[6]i know that, and you clearly have no idea what i have any ideas about. so why shouldn't poorer players be able to copy "fairly good" items they find? why only allow the super rich to copy their items? how many items are even worth 150 exalts, and worth exalting? the mirror of kalandra is a great idea, yet it shouldn't be made so exclusive that only the super rich and super lucky are able to play with them.

For Ten: You know recipes exist to make chaos orbs (and other currency, such as chance orbs, alchemy orbs, etc) right? Very easy to use recipes. Sure, finding the jewelry to make it work is the limiting factor, but it's really not that bad, especially with the rogue exiles if you have decent magic find. Issues like knowledge of those recipes and other actual game mechanics are far, far more pressing than anything you've said to help new players along.

[7a]ok, yet how many players have access to that kind of information? usually it's those dedicated enough to do some research and learn everything there is to know about the game that have the benefit of that knowledge. maybe advertising that kind of thing would help, [7b]but it would make the game much funner if good items were more common, how can you deny that?

i appreciate your arguments, but rather than making things black and white, you're right / i'm wrong, i suggest you try considering some alternative options.

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Antnee wrote:

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Tempada wrote:

Will there be varying 6L Fuse prices based on rarity? From what I understand, it's easiest to 6L a normal item and hardest to 6L a unique item.[Citation Needed] Wouldn't it make sense for the cost to reflect the rarity of item you want to link?

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PandaBears wrote:

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Archwizard wrote:

For One: Accept now that a 6L is meant to be a luxury item. The screenshot shows 5L as 150 fusings, a very reasonable price for anyone who actually will need one.

why should it be a luxury item? why should 5l be reasonable to get an 6l be unreasonable?

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DalaiLama wrote:

The game is designed so that you don't need 6 linked skills or even 5 linked skills to be able to complete end game content.

The developers have said that the game is set up so that players need 4 link items to be able to get through it all.

Think of it this way - if you wanted to compete at the Indianapolis 500, you would need a really fast car - that's the four link.

You wouldn't need a jet engine on the car - that's the 5 link.

You certainly wouldn't need anti-gravity - that's the 6 link.


Of the half dozen end game characters I have had (one was at 200 on the ladder), only one of them uses a 5 link, and none a 6 link. My main skills for that character are on 4 links. I've tried the 5 link for the main skill, and the extra damage versus mana costs really don't make it worthwhile. Furthermore, I don't need the extra damage from the 5 link.

If a mediocre player like myself with so-so gear, main skills on four links, and a non-optimized skill tree can get through level 75-78 maps then anybody willing to put forth the effort to learn about the game and their character can do it.

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Chris wrote:

[li]Haku – Armour Crafting: You can add a crafted mod to an armour piece, if a mod slot is available. The range of different mods increases as Haku levels up. These mods are either remedial ones (low rolls of important mods), off-slot mods (small rolls of things that don't normally appear on that type of item) or very niche mods. Only one crafted mod can be on an item at a time. You can replace it with another if needed. While Haku crafts Armour, many of the other Masters allow crafting of mods specific to other item types.[/li]

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DemiDemon wrote:

So, just to be clear; Are you saying that you have a half-dozen characters who can defeat Atziri? Uber Atziri? (after all, that's current end-game and where the ultimate gear is found). And that only one of these uses more than a 4L and that's a 5L?

Oh, and I mean solo. Not partied with someone with a 6L and 250 Exalteds worth of uber-gear. ;)

Cheers,

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grepman wrote:

you must be new to ARPGs and (to a much lesser extent) MMOs then

in this type of game, again, time played is everything. this is a game about grinding and getting exp and loot as you grind. you do not get the best item in two hours per day for a month or two. you do not get the best item in D2 in two hours per day, or in any competitive ARPG

if you think you should have the same amount and type of items as someone who put in 1000 more hours in this game, youre either a socialist or new to whole concept of ARPGs, sorry

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We've rebalanced many skills in 1.2.0. Some of the less-frequently used skills have received power buffs. Almost all skills have dropped in mana cost.

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nynyny wrote:

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We've rebalanced many skills in 1.2.0. Some of the less-frequently used skills have received power buffs. Almost all skills have dropped in mana cost.

Why, in the name of god, would one even think about buffing the mana cost of 90% of the skills in this game? Attacks are cheap enough already, and the majority of the spells in the game have mana costs that are easy to justify. Some exceptions, such as Ball Lightning or Glacial Cascade seriously shouldnt make you overhaul the entire system.

If anything attacks should get nerfed in terms of cost.