Act 3.x monsters and game balance

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Renahud wrote:

Dominus is not the real problem for me. He is really difficult, but it's alright cause he's the end game boss. And you can learn a lot to make him more manageable, like the other act bosses.

My concern is more about the areas that lead to him, their monsters and their level. What I might agree, is that if they were balanced, dominus as he is now could feel a little overtuned. But again, this wasn't the main purpose of this thread.

No, they're just as balanced as Dominus is. If you actually know what to do against them, they're not all that challenging.

Evangelists' attacks are telegraphed. The solution is to move when you see a white circle under you. You really shouldn't be getting hit by these guys, at least not often, and it should be punishing when you are. Same thing with the extremely-slow-projectile Arctic Breath from the Croaking Chimerals.

There are lots of doorways. You can use these to take breather or use a "divide and conquer" strategy.

The only reason people say they dislike the Sceptre is because they are two-faced. They'll talk about how they want challenge and tactics, and when GGG actually provides white monsters where tactical play is encouraged, they are all upset because what they really want is to farm on autopilot and not have to worry about positioning at all. The reaction is pretty much "what? I can't facetank these Evangelist blasts? Fuck this area." It's a bunch of hypocritical bullshit.

Me, I consistently vote Sceptre of God as one of the best areas in the game. Because it is.

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Me, I consistently vote Sceptre of God as one of the best areas in the game. Because it is.

LoL LoL LoL its so boring, but I am super curious what you enjoy or see in it. perhaps explain what is so great about it :D, to me its just waiting constantly due to small doorways/dsync until evangelist come out of the other room because like you said there circle is staying there dont go on it, the area with the doors and the way you need to open everything and go in to clear the place is lame, the way monster packs are together is usually boring and IMHO you see too much of the SAME MOBS the whole time, high dps stun potential mobs. in small as doorways, nah i dont see this as good design sadly :( wish i did, i really like the bosses going there too.

In the end everything is opinions but I like hearing others reasons.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

The Dominus fight is a thing of beauty and a masterwork of encounter design. It just has some higher-than-average system requirements to run properly. Outside of perhaps some graphical performance tweaks, purely to help with FPS drops, the fight shouldn't change in any way.

I'd agree with you... IF

The one shot always followed the telegraph.
The one shot always coincided with the ground animation.
The one shot always followed the audio.
The one shot always actually had Dominus next to it.
The exploding minions actually exploded where they are on client.


But as none of the above are true.
Then no, the Dominus fight (especially map versions) are not a thing of beauty, but a badly executed fight, in fact, with the core problems that PoE has, we could say it's a badly designed fight because it has more than one one shot with several sync problems, problems that may never be solved.

It gets ridiculous at map level.

There is no place for 1 shot mechanics that cannot be avoided through player reaction. GGG's bizarre designing around logging out doesn't even work, here.

It is a gear and build check, in that you must be able to spell block and take a non-block. It is a carry-party design, where one over-geared max block character takes the hits. As usual, you will be rewarded for cheesing, circumventing being carried. As usual, try solo and not-even-under-geared and you will be killed, at some point, by bad design.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

The only reason people say they dislike the Sceptre is because they are two-faced. They'll talk about how they want challenge and tactics, and when GGG actually provides white monsters where tactical play is encouraged, they are all upset because what they really want is to farm on autopilot and not have to worry about positioning at all. The reaction is pretty much "what? I can't facetank these Evangelist blasts? Fuck this area." It's a bunch of hypocritical bullshit.

Me, I consistently vote Sceptre of God as one of the best areas in the game. Because it is.

No, I dislike the sceptre, not for these reasons.

Lunaris was the end game non-map zone. For boss-flippers, Lunaris is leaped through or LWd through, everything ignored and Pietits Piñata popped, repeat.

Dominus is now the end game non-map zone. For boss-flippers, Sceptre is leaped through or LWd through, everything ignored and Dom Piñata popped, repeat.



I play self found, I don't look at a Lunaris/Sceptre run as what the boss can drop that can be sold to a player, UNID'd chaos, trash vended to alts and turned to fuses and everything ultimately = exalts.

In thousands of kills, Piety has dropped me one single exalted orb, no divines, probably very few stones and scraps and regals. Lunaris trash, chests and pots have given me maybe 50+ exalts, 25+ divines, lots of regals and hundreds, thousands of scraps and stones.

I run Lunaris reluctantly, when I need to currency up.

I don't run Piety, I run Lunaris.
I don't run Dom, I don't run Sceptre, because when running such a mundane currency farm, I have no fun with doorways, with being chilled, with being slowed, with being suppressed. It demands nothing more from me but experiencing annoying doors and monsters, constantly.

I could afk in either zone on a full MFer, "what? I can't facetank these Evangelist blasts? Fuck this area." isn't even close to a factor.

I had a PM from Qarl in Beta, asking about non-map end game. "What if we make the Sceptre of God really challenging" he asked.

This, was supposed to be challenging alternative, optional end game. The result was, the not-so-optional alternative end game where I reluctantly go to currency farm got DROPPED 2 levels and I completely ignore the annoying replacement.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Evangelists' attacks are telegraphed. The solution is to move when you see a white circle under you. You really shouldn't be getting hit by these guys, at least not often, and it should be punishing when you are. Same thing with the extremely-slow-projectile Arctic Breath from the Croaking Chimerals.

There are lots of doorways. You can use these to take breather or use a "divide and conquer" strategy.

The only reason people say they dislike the Sceptre is because they are two-faced. They'll talk about how they want challenge and tactics, and when GGG actually provides white monsters where tactical play is encouraged, they are all upset because what they really want is to farm on autopilot and not have to worry about positioning at all. The reaction is pretty much "what? I can't facetank these Evangelist blasts? Fuck this area." It's a bunch of hypocritical bullshit.

Me, I consistently vote Sceptre of God as one of the best areas in the game. Because it is.

Scepter of god and dominus fight are a huge desync death trap.

If the game had not used desync, these areas would be more than fine. Hell, I'd vote for even more "telegraphed" attacks that are punishing if not dodged.

But as it stands now, PoE is designed in a way that does not support telegraphed big hits.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

No, they're just as balanced as Dominus is. If you actually know what to do against them, they're not all that challenging.

Evangelists' attacks are telegraphed. The solution is to move when you see a white circle under you. You really shouldn't be getting hit by these guys, at least not often, and it should be punishing when you are. Same thing with the extremely-slow-projectile Arctic Breath from the Croaking Chimerals.

There are lots of doorways. You can use these to take breather or use a "divide and conquer" strategy.

The only reason people say they dislike the Sceptre is because they are two-faced. They'll talk about how they want challenge and tactics, and when GGG actually provides white monsters where tactical play is encouraged, they are all upset because what they really want is to farm on autopilot and not have to worry about positioning at all. The reaction is pretty much "what? I can't facetank these Evangelist blasts? Fuck this area." It's a bunch of hypocritical bullshit.

Me, I consistently vote Sceptre of God as one of the best areas in the game. Because it is.

But don't you agree there's a huge gap in difficulty after scepter of god ? I don't dislike the mechanics, I deslike the feel that they're all in the same 3 zones and that after that it's cruise mode until act 3 of next difficulty. When playing hardcore you have to gring quite a lot to even be at the area level of the scepter of god, and then you fall back in areas 3 levels under you. The progression feels really wierd to me.

Either spice up act 1 a bit, with higher zone level and some more tricky monsters, either tone down the damage output of act 3 monsters that feels over the top. Even the long-hated lightning thorns feel like sratches compered to the proky-pines suicide bullets when going from barracks to the garden...

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TheAnuhart wrote:

There is no place for 1 shot mechanics that cannot be avoided through player reaction. GGG's bizarre designing around logging out doesn't even work, here.

Assuming you're not desyncing or FPSing, all of Dominus' attacks can be avoided through player reaction. If you are desyncing or FPSing, this is not necessarily true. However, no sane adjustment to the delay would ever cause this to be true; you'd be ruining the fight for everyone who doesn't desync or FPS.

Frankly, your view of the fight is utterly twisted by performance issues. When you don't have them, it's more than fair.

This game has some severe performance issues. Those performance issues should be fixed. This does not mean the Dominus fight should be changed in any way.

In other words, pretty much what Idioticus said. Except that I know that the only way to fix the problem is to fix the performance issues themselves.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Spoiler

No, I dislike the sceptre, not for these reasons.

Lunaris was the end game non-map zone. For boss-flippers, Lunaris is leaped through or LWd through, everything ignored and Pietits Piñata popped, repeat.

Dominus is now the end game non-map zone. For boss-flippers, Sceptre is leaped through or LWd through, everything ignored and Dom Piñata popped, repeat.

I play self found, I don't look at a Lunaris/Sceptre run as what the boss can drop that can be sold to a player, UNID'd chaos, trash vended to alts and turned to fuses and everything ultimately = exalts.

In thousands of kills, Piety has dropped me one single exalted orb, no divines, probably very few stones and scraps and regals. Lunaris trash, chests and pots have given me maybe 50+ exalts, 25+ divines, lots of regals and hundreds, thousands of scraps and stones.

I run Lunaris reluctantly, when I need to currency up.

I don't run Piety, I run Lunaris.
I don't run Dom, I don't run Sceptre, because when running such a mundane currency farm, I have no fun with doorways, with being chilled, with being slowed, with being suppressed. It demands nothing more from me but experiencing annoying doors and monsters, constantly.

I could afk in either zone on a full MFer, "what? I can't facetank these Evangelist blasts? Fuck this area." isn't even close to a factor.

I had a PM from Qarl in Beta, asking about non-map end game. "What if we make the Sceptre of God really challenging" he asked.

This, was supposed to be challenging alternative, optional end game. The result was, the not-so-optional alternative end game where I reluctantly go to currency farm got DROPPED 2 levels and I completely ignore the annoying replacement.

You're rambling here. I read the entire thing and I didn't get any solid reasoning in it whatsoever. Just a collection of statements which do not relate directly to the topic under discussion. Perhaps they relate indirectly, but if so you're going to have to spell it out better.

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Renahud wrote:

But don't you agree there's a huge gap in difficulty after scepter of god ? I don't dislike the mechanics, I deslike the feel that they're all in the same 3 zones and that after that it's cruise mode until act 3 of next difficulty.

Well, at the very least cruise mode until act 2 of the next difficulty. But yeah, I do agree with that. I'm hoping that the new expansion brings more difficulty to Act 1 Cruel and Act 1 Merciless.

Never had a single problem in whole Act3 in 1.5 years of playing and more than 25 characters created that went from a1n to a3m. Not even with Dominus, all in HC leagues

I honestly don't understand what are the main difficulties of a3x. Evangelist? porcupines? i really don't get it

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Mahesys wrote:

Never had a single problem in whole Act3 in 1.5 years of playing and more than 25 characters created that went from a1n to a3m. Not even with Dominus, all in HC leagues

I honestly don't understand what are the main difficulties of a3x. Evangelist? porcupines? i really don't get it

It's because you are too good as a player.
For the rest of us, the noobs, some of the SoG/gardens mobs are too imba, compared to the rest of A3 content.

-evangelists : it's true their attacks are easily avoidable if player pays attention and plays carefully; they just had to have a bit less HP and deal less damage to be well balanced

-SF birds : annoying, but not a problem for most of the builds; damage is a bit high

-avians : schizophrenic behavior, desync generators, damage overtuned; terribad design

-procupines : spikes deal sick damage at insane range, a certain death fo unarmored chars if not played extremely carefully; high armor, max block, high eva OG or ask a friend for help; could be well designed if spikes' damage was lower

-chimerals : OP as fuck; no cd on leap, sick melee/leap damage; sick AB damage, offscreen attacks; terribad design

Conclusion : most of the "new" A3 mobs deal much higher damage, than the rest of the A3 content, require specific approach, are build abusers, some of them are OP as fuck and can crush any low level build.

Having in mind SoG is inhabited of all these monster types mixed, that all require specific treatment, it's safe to say this zone is a little nightmare for low level undergeared chars.

One can't stay noob forever. Skill up like everyone else and quit complaining, don't let GGG nerf difficulty of this game AGAIN

Btw i was noob too lol died first time to cruel hilrake, i just learnt from my mistake from death to death

Also, a single granite flask can counter most of A3x worst mobs even in merciless if rolled with +X% armor, including birds, chimeras, evangelist, big skeletons and porcupines, getting a granite costs 1 alch or at the veeeeery most 1 chaos at start of league...