RMT Sites are now making their own items and selling copies.

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Completed 2 ChallengesXavderion wrote:
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mrpetrov wrote:
"
Completed 2 ChallengesXavderion wrote:
Prove me wrong by quantifying the effect of RMT on the average player.


This is what you resort to? Just take a look at your own sig (oh the irony!).

P.


Yes, I want proof, what's wrong about that?. Everyone claims how RMT is ruining their PoE experience, but nobody can show how exactly it happens. Usually it boils down to X being jelly of Y having better items than him. If you're a player aiming for #1 spot on the ladder, I can see how RMT affects you a ton. But if you're an average player, I really don't see it. Pls show.


If youre into the trading game of course it affects you and even more if a lot do it. RMTers can afford anything while you have to farm for orbs do recipes and other stuff to get items and orbs the RMTers just buy the orbs. Then comes the fun part, they buy stuff from others with their RMTed orbs and you wonder why the prices are so fucked up because if a lot of them buy lots of ex they can buy lots of stuff with it, making everything cost a lot of ex. Get it now?

If i have a store and in that store i sell stuff for 1 dollar but i end up having lots of people buy lots of stuff i can push the price higher and higher, making it impossible at some point for others to keep buying from me and only the ones who started spending lots of money there end up being able to keep buying.

Thats why price checks via ratio sites and xyz are stupid, everything on xyz is the stuff that has not been sold yet, meaning one cannot tell if it will in fact sell for that or not.

Ratio sites are at times RMT controlled, some even link to orb selling sites.

If you dont think it affects you, i pity you.

“It strikes me profoundly that the world is more often than not a bad and cruel place.”
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Completed 2 ChallengesXavderion wrote:
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mrpetrov wrote:

I certainly didn't claim RMT is ruining anyone's PoE experience (trading ruined mine, but I can't speak for what goes on in other people's heads).

I'm claiming RMT has an effect on the economy. My hypothesis is that it is a significant effect, but that's not possible to "prove" beyond doubt given the lack of available data. Can you prove it doesn't have an effect on the economy at large? No, you can't either.

Doesn't mean one of us isn't right.

P.


Here's the thing, if the effect is significant, it must be possible to show how significant it is, either with numbers or somehow else. I can't do that, that's why I think the effect is insignificant. Hope that makes sense.


Isnt that the same approach people take when they talk about religion?
“It strikes me profoundly that the world is more often than not a bad and cruel place.”
it's d3 all over again

How RMT impacts you :

I want to buy Lightning Coil for 2 ex.

RMT'er can afford to pay more, he offers 2.5 ex

Lol get fucked.
IGN: Chundaziri
8/8 Ambush/Invasion Complete - 21/06/2014
Last edited by Chundadragon on July 16, 2014 9:05 AM
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mrpetrov wrote:

That is incorrect logic. To be able to show the effect of X on Y, you need to be able to show what Y would be without the effect of X. Sadly, we have no data on Y either with or without the effect of X. The combination of lack of data and quasi-survivor bias does not mean that X has had no effect on Y.


No, what I mean is you have to be able to describe what exactly makes you feel that the impact of RMT is significant. You must have expectations of what the game would be like without RMT, else you wouldn't feel as you feel.

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mrpetrov wrote:
What we can reiterate is the established logic of economics and inflation applied elsewhere in the world, to PoE. Ventor has done this just above in a very simple way. Take a re-read of it and let us know if you don't agree with his logic?

P.


See my response to him, this doesn't help us solve the problem at all. I'm not even discussing this point, it's common sense that RMT causes some form of inflation. I'm just saying that it's an insignificant amount.
If you need to use hyperbole to make a point, you only admit that your point is too weak to stand on its own.
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Completed 2 ChallengesXavderion wrote:
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Ventor wrote:

RMT causes inflation in the economy. Price levels rise as a result of it. Your purchasing power remains the same because you do not RMT. Thus, it's harder for you to obtain goods vs someone who RMT's.


I agree with everything you said. My point is, the inflation caused solely by RMT is miniscule. Hundreds of exalts enter the economy every day, that's what causes most of the inflation. People playing in an endless league and climbing the item spiral near the top is what causes inflation. RMT plays a very small part in it.


Get your facts straight buddy. I'm gonna drop some facts on you.

RMT sites sell HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of Eternals / Exalts / Divines etc. There are dozens of these sites running.

I have a level 100 and multiple 90+ characters, so needless to say, I have played a lot of this game. And for that, I have had 1 Eternal drop for me. Just one.
IGN:Vennttorr - Level 100 Witch - 1st Witch to 100.

My mirror service thread: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/811499

My Crit Arc build: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/965159
Last edited by Ventor on July 16, 2014 9:07 AM
Not really sure why anyone has pointed out the obvious.

You claim that inflation is caused by "hundreds of exalts entering the economy every day"

Youre reasonable, im sure you can agree that a portion of those come purely from botting for the purpose of RMT.

If RMT was absolute zero tolerance dont even start three sentences using those letters, that botting would decline quite a bit.

The more profitable RMT is in PoE, the more bots running, the more exalts being introduced into the economy.

RMT has to be pretty damn profitable here, nearly zero consequences for a playerbase that has already demonstrated their ability to throw thousands of dollars at things that glow.

You may not be able to quantify the effect RMT has on inflation, but youd be a fool to think argue against this.
@sosocold

"just for try, for see and for know"
"
How RMT impacts you :

I want to buy Lightning Coil for 2 ex.

RMT'er can afford to pay more, he offers 2.5 ex

Lol get fucked.


Yeah, sounds easy in a model with one legit player and one RMTer. I'm talking about the real economy in PoE though, with thousands of players.
If you need to use hyperbole to make a point, you only admit that your point is too weak to stand on its own.
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Ventor wrote:
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Completed 2 ChallengesXavderion wrote:
"
Ventor wrote:

RMT causes inflation in the economy. Price levels rise as a result of it. Your purchasing power remains the same because you do not RMT. Thus, it's harder for you to obtain goods vs someone who RMT's.


I agree with everything you said. My point is, the inflation caused solely by RMT is miniscule. Hundreds of exalts enter the economy every day, that's what causes most of the inflation. People playing in an endless league and climbing the item spiral near the top is what causes inflation. RMT plays a very small part in it.


Get your facts straight buddy. I'm gonna drop some facts on you.

RMT sites sell HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of Eternals / Exalts / Divines etc. There are dozens of these sites running.

I have a level 100 and multiple 90+ characters, so needless to say, I have played a lot of this game. And for that, I have had 1 Eternal drop for me. Just one.


What does this have to do with what I wrote? I stated a fact, do you want to debate it? You stated an estimation? I don't get it.
If you need to use hyperbole to make a point, you only admit that your point is too weak to stand on its own.
Also had 1 eternal drop in several thousand hours of play.

Either that botting is real significant or everyone and their mother are selling currency to RMT sites.
@sosocold

"just for try, for see and for know"

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