Are Stash Tabs Pay To Win ? Science

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Jojas wrote:

You keep on ignoring that there is a huge difference between games like Allods, where you can greatly enhance your dps, your defense and your XP - all of which are necessary unless you want to turn it into an endless, frustrating grind - and PoE, where you can actually play the whole game for free, with the slight disadvantage of having to spend a bit of your time on mules.

You say you hate discussing semantics, but semantics in this case are the whole point. Just imagine PoE being labeled pay2win in every forum, by each and every game journalist, in every news snippet, etc. Wouldn't people associate PoE with games that actually are pay2win, i.e. games in which you get stuck, or trail forever behind, or spend countless hours grinding, if you don't spend money?

So while you know yourself that PoE is not a game like that, why do insist on calling it pay2win?

...I admire your persistence, but it's overwhelmingly clear to me the OP wasn't looking for anyone else's opinion. They just wanted to lecture. To proclaim. To soapbox.

Anyone who wants to declare what something 'is' and then rejects the importance of semantics and definitions is most definitely someone who cannot be taken seriously in a discussion.

A genuine waste of a thread, despite all efforts. Scrotie's pie was annoying. And right.

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Crusader_7 wrote:

the "Class Dismissed" is simply to do with the fact this thread started with me explaining to 8 year olds in a class, about how Stash Tabs are pay to win (pay for advantage).

they all got A+'s understanding it so easy btw.

That's twice you've tried to reinforce your argument by saying 8 year olds see your point of view. Dude, anybody can convince 8 year olds of anything. Just because an 8 year old believes there's a Santa Claus doesn't make it true.

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Jojas wrote:

So while you know yourself that PoE is not a game like that, why do insist on calling it pay2win?

really i don't care about the other games. I don't want to base my opinion of what is pay to win, depending on some other game's level of it.

really i'm trying to say stash tabs are a form of pay to win. Nothing else.

I would consider POE 99% not pay to win, 1% pay to win. Cuz of stash tabs.

i'm not worried about GGG's image as a non pay to win game.

i'm not trying to deceive people.

Recap of my recent threads.

1) wanted GGG to make more pay to win things besides stash tabs. Things like low dps pets. was met with resistance from a lot of players, not all.
2) decided POE shouldn't be messed with as these players should have POE the way they have for years. So i decided to make a new thread... idea of GGG creating a different version of POE, or licensing one out, that would be same as POE except they could sell for cash, low dps pets, etc etc etc. AGAIN, met with resistance. Even the idea of GGG letting others do it on a different game and they collect money, was met with talk of walking away from GGG if they tried to access that market. Even if it left POE as is, untouched.
3) decided that was extremely unreasonable as all the arguments almost were just hating on cash for advantage, so, i decided to make this thread... to point out how obvious stash tabs are pay for advantage. Not to just stick a finger in their eye, but to get them to realize it, and realize it doesn't matter. And to maybe soften people's aversion here to even GGG having a different POE for people like me that want to buy that sort of thing.

honestly i think GGG advertising as "never pay to win" has created a following here, that will only hurt them financially unless that following stops caring about how GGG makes money elsewhere. As long as POE remains untouched, they shouldn't care.

i like poe, i just wish GGG could make cash transactions for fighting pets etc.

if too many GGG supporters are standing in the way of that even on a separate game with POE completely safe from it, GGG, and POE, will lose out on a lot of revenue in the long run.

and i'll never get to play with all the little toys they could have made.

"Wouldn't people associate PoE with games that actually are pay2win, i.e. games in which you get stuck, or trail forever behind, or spend countless hours grinding, if you don't spend money?"

that's one way to think of pay to win. My example was to allow no more than 2 transactions active on a character at 1 time, and only changeable once per day on that character.

GGG has already shown they don't want pay to win as you described, but a minor form of it, they would police the creations just fine, just like they have stash tabs and recipes, under their own roof or licensed out to other by contract in a different POE version.

Pay to win, is very popular, in many circles. Supporting GGG shouldn't mean accept some pay to win, while calling it not pay to win, while stopping GGG from making money off those who actually WANT pay to win, in a separate POE of their control/design... in this case in a mild form of it.

i think i've covered all the bases possible on this thread now.

figured my motive should be said.

last thing i'll say is POE isn't relatively big cuz they promised no pay to win. They are doing ok because people love the diablo style games and POE has done a good job pulling something together that way, with some new ideas, races etc.

it's the "no pay to win" advertising though, that is now a huge weight... i don't even think they could if they wanted to out of fear of seeming to go against their word.

The only way they might open that market up in a separate version, and get more cash from it, which in turn would help POE greatly, is if these supporters here, ALLOW them to.

first step... "i guess pay to win isn't so bad all the time after all, seeing as it turns out my stash tabs are pay to win without a doubt".....

And with this... i hereby give an oath on the body of my dead templar Wrath_of_Christ_To_Come, that i am finished with this thread.

i've covered everything i could possibly want to say on this i'm sure.

bye.

im going to Register to Win

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Crusader_7 wrote:

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Jojas wrote:

So while you know yourself that PoE is not a game like that, why do insist on calling it pay2win?

really i don't care about the other games. I don't want to base my opinion of what is pay to win, depending on some other game's level of it.

really i'm trying to say stash tabs are a form of pay to win. Nothing else.

I would consider POE 99% not pay to win, 1% pay to win. Cuz of stash tabs.

i'm not worried about GGG's image as a non pay to win game.

No, but you seem to care about the truth. And if the truth is that 99% of PoE is not pay2win, and 1% is, isn't saying that PoE is a pay2win game ... a lie?

I know for you the thread is over, but there is just so much wrong with your whole agenda, it's just sad. Maybe really best to let this thread sink to the bottom of the ocean.

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we offer a range of ethical microtransactions that allow you to distinguish yourself in the world of Wraeclast without receiving any gameplay advantage

Tabs IS an in-game ADVANTAGE. You don't have to waste time switching between mules. You dont have to register mule accounts, you dont have to manage and remember on which account and char do you have some stuff. You save crazy amount of time, during this you could farm maps or bosses, gaining an gameplay advantage. You can use procurement to parse all your TRADE tabs. You gain massive advantage in trading - you can sell much more items in one time, gaining more wealth, gaining an gameplay advantage.. You can do chaos recipes not sacrificing rest of the storage, you can do unique recipe for chance orbs, you can do unid chaos recipe, accumulating more currency and gaining an gameplay advantage.. You can store MUCH more currency, dont have to buy exalts for save place from this mass chaos amounts, and be unable to trade because of that and gaining an gameplay advantage.. You can store MUCH more maps, gaining an gameplay advantage. You can store MUCH, MUCH more leveling items, so you can re-level FASTER, gaining an gameplay advantage. You can start collect every unique item just for fun, because you CAN, and others CAN NOT. You can store more GEMS so you can always find what gem you need, this is another gameplay advantage. There is so much gameplay advantages you get buying stash tabs.

They are definitely not an gameplay advantage, as this quote from shop says, facepalm.

@jstq
I don't give a shit about more than half of the "advantages" you listed.

Obviously having more stash tabs is better than having fewer.
But in the end, how much of an "advantage" is left?

You can do your chaos recipes just fine with 4 tabs, you can store some of the more useful uniques, you have room to sell stuff, and your currency and 70+ maps will also fit somewhere.
If you need more room for trading, get 1-2 mule characters.

Yes, you probably cannot keep every shitty unique/rare you ever find, put "1 chaos/fusing" buyout on it and hope that one day someone is stupid enough to pay you, but how important is this? Sell for Alteration and Alchemy Shards, that's not that terrible, too.

my take on the topic:

i have 10 stash-tabs altogether on this account. yes its very handy. and of course you could get some advantages if you do the math. but its more a theoretical advantage imho.

during the last league before ambush and invasion (what was it called again?) i created a second account, because i wanted to start a new SF-project. i didnt have any problems with only 4 stash-tabs at all. i did the chaos-recipe and the chance-orb-recipe. in all honesty: i even had more fun, because i didnt have to micro-manage all that inventory. i only kept uniques and q-gems and very good rares. on my main-account i have stashed several rares i will never use (and sell one day, when space is rare). but i always have to play the inventory-tetris to a degree where its not that much fun anymore.

main-advantage of stash-tabs is in standard-league, where you really have enough stuff, worth keeping. but who cares about standard?

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Edradour wrote:

my take on the topic:

i have 10 stash-tabs altogether on this account. yes its very handy. and of course you could get some advantages if you do the math. but its more a theoretical advantage imho.

during the last league before ambush and invasion (what was it called again?) i created a second account, because i wanted to start a new SF-project. i didnt have any problems with only 4 stash-tabs at all. i did the chaos-recipe and the chance-orb-recipe. in all honesty: i even had more fun, because i didnt have to micro-manage all that inventory. i only kept uniques and q-gems and very good rares. on my main-account i have stashed several rares i will never use (and sell one day, when space is rare). but i always have to play the inventory-tetris to a degree where its not that much fun anymore.

[...]

Your main statement aside, I can pretty much second it as I also only have the original 4 tabs.

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Edradour wrote:

[...]

main-advantage of stash-tabs is in standard-league, where you really have enough stuff, worth keeping. but who cares about standard?

A pretty huge minority cares for standard.

Bigger than HC and legacy HC combined or nearly as big, I think.

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jstq wrote:

"

we offer a range of ethical microtransactions that allow you to distinguish yourself in the world of Wraeclast without receiving any gameplay advantage

Tabs IS an in-game ADVANTAGE. You don't have to waste time switching between mules. You dont have to register mule accounts, you dont have to manage and remember on which account and char do you have some stuff. You save crazy amount of time, during this you could farm maps or bosses, gaining an gameplay advantage. You can use procurement to parse all your TRADE tabs. You gain massive advantage in trading - you can sell much more items in one time, gaining more wealth, gaining an gameplay advantage.. You can do chaos recipes not sacrificing rest of the storage, you can do unique recipe for chance orbs, you can do unid chaos recipe, accumulating more currency and gaining an gameplay advantage.. You can store MUCH more currency, dont have to buy exalts for save place from this mass chaos amounts, and be unable to trade because of that and gaining an gameplay advantage.. You can store MUCH more maps, gaining an gameplay advantage. You can store MUCH, MUCH more leveling items, so you can re-level FASTER, gaining an gameplay advantage. You can start collect every unique item just for fun, because you CAN, and others CAN NOT. You can store more GEMS so you can always find what gem you need, this is another gameplay advantage. There is so much gameplay advantages you get buying stash tabs.

They are definitely not an gameplay advantage, as this quote from shop says, facepalm.

Everything you mentioned you can also do with mule accounts without much hassle.