PoE needs a difficulty factor setting

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

The point is that it's too easy to min/max. You need to spice things up a bit — for example, changing all the math from one map run to another.

And none of that is different then what we have now with sarn, docks, fellshrine, ledge, piety, dominus, packs size maps, etc... we run the easy stuff, skip the hard stuff and nothing skill wise or difficult is rewarded based on the chance that we'll die trying it. At the current level we either faceroll something or we get facerolled but sliders (multiple and impacting different aspects of the game like map mods do) would add granularity to the scaling and provide more then those two levels of challenge that can be slightly customized to your desires and allows for mutations in the gameplay that may not exist otherwise. Which is why I think a system similar to but more fleshed out (and tailored to this game) then the mission slider that anarchy online had may be interesting.


and personally I would prefer all content to be able to be min/maxed if need be over just a small portion of it being min/maxed and most of it getting skipped....

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Hmm. I hadn't thought about that. But isn't this similar to how grouping is now? Meaning the more players you have, the less MF you're required to have?

This is why I feel a difficulty slider should only apply to solo play. Also so it wouldn't split up the community.

Um, no.

If you're looking to me to say that group bonuses are well-balanced in the game, I'm not going to do that. They're bad, especially in terms of XP gain in maps. They allow a good chunk of difficulty to be subverted.

But if you then expect me to say "well, since grouping has a game-breaking benefit, solo should also get a game-breaking benefit," then my answer to you is hell no. We don't need both solo and group fucked up. A grouping system which is much less easy mode and much more fear of God is what I'd like to see.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

The point is that it's too easy to min/max. You need to spice things up a bit — for example, changing all the math from one map run to another.

Exactly.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

A grouping system which is much less easy mode and much more fear of God is what I'd like to see.

Will never happen without AI.
TL2 has AI, and even there bosses struggle to keep up with multiple players attacking simultaniously.

Without the kind of AI that puts even TL2's masterpiece system to shame, the only way of putting "the fear of God" into group play, will also make solo play impossible.

PoE is light years away from the former, and very close to the latter in terms of gear checks + RNG making solo self-found a living hell.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Hmm. I hadn't thought about that. But isn't this similar to how grouping is now? Meaning the more players you have, the less MF you're required to have?

This is why I feel a difficulty slider should only apply to solo play. Also so it wouldn't split up the community.

Um, no.

If you're looking to me to say that group bonuses are well-balanced in the game, I'm not going to do that. They're bad, especially in terms of XP gain in maps. They allow a good chunk of difficulty to be subverted.

But if you then expect me to say "well, since grouping has a game-breaking benefit, solo should also get a game-breaking benefit," then my answer to you is hell no. We don't need both solo and group fucked up. A grouping system which is much less easy mode and much more fear of God is what I'd like to see.

Scrotie you're basing your argument on an assumption again. You're assuming that applying a difficulty slider to solo play only will provide an inordinate advantage. GGG could easily balance the settings so that wouldn't happen. Plus in PoE's current state I am willing to bet party play would still beat out solo play even if it were buffed.

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johnKeys wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

A grouping system which is much less easy mode and much more fear of God is what I'd like to see.

Will never happen without AI.
TL2 has AI, and even there bosses struggle to keep up with multiple players attacking simultaniously.

Without the kind of AI that puts even TL2's masterpiece system to shame, the only way of putting "the fear of God" into group play, will also make solo play impossible.

PoE is light years away from the former, and very close to the latter in terms of gear checks + RNG making solo self-found a living hell.

Not necessarily -- here is a change that would make group play impossibly hard without affecting solo play:

For each party member past the first, multiply all monster damage by 1000.

And, so, there's somewhere in between this extreme change and what we have now where group play is more difficult than it is now, but not impossible, and where solo play remains untouched. Such balance tweaks are uninspired, though.

I'm not sure what interesting design changes could be made to make group play more difficult/interesting.

I'd consider something more along the lines of:

• XP gain is now split evenly among nearby party members instead of granting the full amount to each (ex: 4 players get 25% each, instead of all 3 players getting 100%).
• Item rarity increased by 25% per additional player (max 125% more).
• Pack density for non-unique monsters increased by 40% per additional player (max 200% more).
• Non-unique monster life increased by 40% per additional player (max 200% more).
• Non-unique monster XP gain increased by 15% per additional player (max 75% more).
• Unique monster life increased by 100% per additional player (max 500% more).
• Unique monster attack, cast, and move speed increased by 10% per additional player (max 50% more).
• Unique monster quantity of item drops increased by 40% per additional player (max 200% more).
• Unique monster XP gain increased by 80% per additional player (max 400% more).
• Unique monster AI altered to change targets between various party members more often during combat.

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Arrowneous wrote:

 If GGG were to add a difficulty factor into PoE then the baseline difficulty should be slightly less than what PoE currently is in Standard League (somewhere around 10%) to allow everyone to set the factor to say 20 to get the same level of difficulty as the current hard wired PoE. That way the newbies can, if they want to, start out with an easier way to learn the PoE ropes.

Except you're going to have massive numbers of very non-noob players exploiting the hell out of the easier difficulty in order to get better farming efficiency.

Slurms, you should know better than to encourage these folks. The ideal difficulty setting for the game is one which is not alterable.

This could easily be countered with a MF penalty to the easier settings.

 If any non-newbie wants to play with the difficulty factor at 0 then you would get 0 IIQ and 0 IIR so while farming would be easier and faster the return for zones cleared would be lower so the yield in terms of useful drops should not make it worth the faster zone clearing speed. Also, everyone would/should stop complaining that PoE is too easy or too hard.

 I've never drunk Slurm and after seeing how it it made I would never ever want it.  :)

Note: GGG should remove IIQ and IIR as an item mod so no one can stack IIQ and IIR on their gear and make fast farming runs by setting the difficulty factor to 0.

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

solo play matters to the noob which is who a difficulty slider should be aimed to help.

Newbies don´t need a difficulty slider. They need proper education on how this game works.

I´d say the game, especially in the beginning (normal difficulty), is super easy for anyone who knows the basic mechanics.

Difficulty sliders are the wrong approach to fix the "issues". They would only delay the need to learn until later in the game. A proper tutorial/manual would more than fix the issues of new players having a rough start.

At the same time, yes, for all non-newbies it would just be another way to min/max their efficiency and find the best exploitive setting. And I think there´s already enough other, more important stuff in the pipeline that´s waiting to be handled. (graphical client performance, trading system, etc.)

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Arrowneous wrote:

We all would love to faceroll the mobs once in a while but then when that gets boring just slide up to a higher challenge as your PoE skills increase over time.

its called alching maps, it already exists in a far more fun and interesting fashion than a difficulty bar. You keep talking about this wall for new players, sry mate but normal difficulty is so painfully easy it verges on pathetic if you know what you are doing.

What Grumlum says is absolutely right. Anyone who has difficulty getting a character to level 90 in a softcore league needs an education in the game, not a slider that lets them win while still being bad. The feeling of reward for getting somewhere is diminished when the effort required to achieve it is diminished.

I dont buy all this new players need it easy to protect the future of poe stuff. I think the real problem is that you personally have given up trying. Your highest character is lvl71, youre about 15 hours into a game designed to last years, and already youve given up and decided to spend your time asking for GGG to make the game easier for you rather than apply yourself and work out what you are doing so terribly wrong that in 18 months you havent managed to get further than a lot of people are managing in 2 days.