Should "Vitality" get buffed?

The endurance charge idea is neat, but consider a build that is regenerating life--1,000 is not very much. You can do that quite frequently; more frequently than charges expire. An aura, I don't think should be able to get you to and sustain max charges all by itself. That is, unless the "1,000 life" were also scaled by increased aura effects; in which case it'd be a nice boost/reset timer for other EC generating set ups.

Edit: But no, I don't think it needs to be buffed; it fits into some niche roles. It could be made more interesting, however.. I like the way increased mana regeneration interacts with max mana (though should be max unreserved mana) and scales flat mana regen. That's something missing from life regen as a whole, I think.

Flat life regen from gear is useless; there are no flat mana regen mods from gear.
flat mana regen (clarity) interacts with increased mana regen; there is no "increased" life regen for flat life on gear to interact with.

Reek. REEKS, I tell you, of missed opportunity to generate some interesting mechanics. Side effects may include absofuckinglutely useless item mods.

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Boem wrote:

how about this lol :D,

For every 1000hp vitality regenerates, an endurance charge is added to the character!

Note : only hp regenerated by vitality, not other regen% sources.

That would really make it an effective aura for life based tanks!

Cute

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The endurance charge idea is neat, but consider a build that is regenerating life--1,000 is not very much. You can do that quite frequently; more frequently than charges expire. An aura, I don't think should be able to get you to and sustain max charges all by itself. That is, unless the "1,000 life" were also scaled by increased aura effects; in which case it'd be a nice boost/reset timer for other EC generating set ups.

Edit: But no, I don't think it needs to be buffed; it fits into some niche roles. It could be made more interesting, however.. I like the way increased mana regeneration interacts with max mana (though should be max unreserved mana) and scales flat mana regen. That's something missing from life regen as a whole, I think.

Flat life regen from gear is useless; there are no flat mana regen mods from gear.
flat mana regen (clarity) interacts with increased mana regen; there is no "increased" life regen for flat life on gear to interact with.

Reek. REEKS, I tell you, of missed opportunity to generate some interesting mechanics. Side effects may include absofuckinglutely useless item mods.

My endurance charge on 1000hp regen was just again, a number to demonstrate an idea :).

I also pointed out it would only take into effect the life regenerated with vitality, not from other % regen sources. (so one might have 550 life regen for example, but only 150 of that being provided by vitality, so only that 150 would count towards adding a charge)

Obviously this number could be tweaked.

It is worth noting this would be great for evasion high hp characters as well, since they get higher spike hits, making vitality an interesting aura for them since it could potentially add full endurance charges over the time to regenerate to full hp.

It was just an idea anyway :). Something to make it add more reduction so it could in fact replace a purity aura that provides flat dps decrease vs enemy's, which is far superior in PoE. (something to make it compete)

Edit : also worth noting, one has to take 1000 dps first before this buff would have a use. Again this offers an interesting theory-craft possibility where less reduction might yield better results for example.

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iiell wrote:

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Boem wrote:

hmm i imagine a number like 150 life regen flat base at lvl 20.

That would be so OP for certain builds...

There wouldn't be much danger of exploit from changing it to a flat number, builds that need low life rely on not taking any damage to it. Unfortunately, not many chars have low life pool if they can help it so switching to flat bonus wouldn't offer much advantage either.

Currently, vitality with some aura effect bonus offers around 2% regen which is the same as mara notable or the one at dualist plus one minor node, I'd say that's somewhat bit lowish these days. Back when vitality was the only source of minion regen for summoners it was a bit sensitive to tweaking, but now that summoners can get 2,5% regen just from passives they usually take, a smallish boost wouldn't break the bank.

As for characters, 2% regen on a solid 4K health pool is 80 health per second, if vitality offered, say, 100 on max level plus some extra from aura effect it wouldn't feel much stronger for those average chars, for those that have over 5K health it would feel about the same and for those brave souls (if any) in endgame with 3k and under it would feel significantly better, which I consider to be a good thing.

But yes, summoners will hate it.

^how about the endurance charge thought? :D

(obviously i just took 150hp out of the top of my head without much consideration or numbers, i just follow my guts when posting suggestions etc)

I could see a lot of use for a free endurance charge in combat while taking damage. And it is limited by a max count anywayz so would be hard to abuse since players already have Cwdt + enduring cry available imo.

@raics: I imagine there could be some unforeseen potential to exploit a sufficiently large flat value. There is always some unforeseeable potential; Path of Exile in particular goes out of its way to exploit that :) however, potential aside, the most powerful use I could foresee is with life/ES hybrid utilizing life leech and Ghost Reaver. 150 (or any other value not abysmally low) life per second while ES is acting as an effective large flat value damage buffer to life is pretty significant. Especially if that ES comes in the EV/ES flavor.

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Boem wrote:

^how about the endurance charge thought? :D

(obviously i just took 150hp out of the top of my head without much consideration or numbers, i just follow my guts when posting suggestions etc)

I could see a lot of use for a free endurance charge in combat while taking damage. And it is limited by a max count anywayz so would be hard to abuse since players already have Cwdt + enduring cry available imo.

Who knows, maybe wasn't such a ridiculous number, it would hardly make or break anything compared to some other stuff, but yeah, not much of a change... and I agree with Pants it *might* become dangerous some day.

Hmm, about charges, if everyone and his uncle wasn't using CwDT enduring cry I'd say it's a pretty darn good idea, but I'm afraid that's already way past the threshold for number of enduring charges I'm willing to accept for free :)

I'd be much more interested in some mechanics that spends them, something like 'consumes an endurance charge every X seconds to instantly restore 1/MaxEndCharges of your health. So, if 3 charges are your maximum it would restore a third, if 5 is your max it would restore a fifth. How's that for min/maxer diminishing returns? :)

Another random idea, solely for the sake of brainstorming (I'm still not convinced it needs to be changed, but brainstorming is always fun):
Vitality 2.0 grants a some amount of increased life regenerated, a small amount of flat life regenerated per second, and flat additional base maximum life. The first attribute would make it interesting to build with, the second attribute gives it something to do without building around it, and the third attribute in particular makes it more competitive with Purity of [element].

^i feel like drinking some scotch with the both of you while discussing subject's like this.

Might be better then an hour inside PoE lmao :DDD!

Both are very cool suggestions btw. I feel currently the cost does not benefit the reward. Lowering the cost would help this out, but it would be a "lame" kind of fix without making it necessarily interesting.

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Hmm, about charges, if everyone and his uncle wasn't using CwDT enduring cry I'd say it's a pretty darn good idea, but I'm afraid that's already way past the threshold for number of enduring charges I'm willing to accept for free :)

I'd be much more interested in some mechanics that spends them, something like 'consumes an endurance charge every X seconds to instantly restore 1/MaxEndCharges of your health. So, if 3 charges are your maximum it would restore a third, if 5 is your max it would restore a fifth. How's that for min/maxer diminishing returns? :)

About this, first part of your text.

I honestly have no issue with Cwdt + endu cry, i feel it enables playing melee more efficiently since in the old days one had to constantly recast endu cry while in the middle of combat for example. You where also constantly watching the top left of your screen (the timer), and when stunned your charges could fail.

when you build around this as an EHP increase this could be brutal at times.

As such, i see no real issue for maintaining max endu charges for "free" (let's be real 40% mana reserve and the need to take damage for it to be activated ain't actually free? :p, also when combined with the IC combo, it would actually lose efficiency, since you no longer take damage you wont get new charges as fast from it :) )

Second part, this is a very interesting mechanic, but would be counter-productive towards the left side of the passive tree. However it is very interesting :D, not sure what i think of this. One part of me likes it because it is very creative, but another part dislikes it because it would lose effectiveness for high endurance charge users, however they do have a higher EHP value already so this might be "balanced" and justified. Very cool mechanic bro!

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Another random idea, solely for the sake of brainstorming (I'm still not convinced it needs to be changed, but brainstorming is always fun):
Vitality 2.0 grants a some amount of increased life regenerated, a small amount of flat life regenerated per second, and flat additional base maximum life. The first attribute would make it interesting to build with, the second attribute gives it something to do without building around it, and the third attribute in particular makes it more competitive with Purity of [element].

Also a very cool idea but like as my suggestion adding flat value's might be dangerous.
(the life) Maybe a %increased hp instead? (max value of 10% increase at lvl 20 maybe?) This gives an extra node in the passive tree for example when utilizing this aura. Might open up builds more as a result or at least make this aura attractive.

It could also for example have a buff stating "flat regen rolls on items have x%increased effect" (up to 100% on lvl 20), this would open up item diversity. a 6 flat regen item would have never looked so attractive! (could potentially yield i think around 80 regen from your items maybe more in total, that's quite cool)

Peace,

-Boem-

Not sure if it needs changing, but if so I would be very much in favour of a high but flat cost.

For one simple reason, it would give a definite use and purpose for Mortal Conviction beyond extremely niche builds using several high-end rare uniques that everyone seems focused on balancing it around.

No percentage aura will ever be worth it with Mortal Conviction in it's current form for 99,9% of all players and for the 0,1% of players for whom it could be worth it there's better options. Granted, that's very much an issue with Mortal Conviction but considering the last rebalance up to a whole 40% I don't see that one changing very soon. It would require admitting the original idea was bad in the first place.

If Vitality were to gain a flat cost it'd become a very natural fit to a build that benefits more from it than most and Mortal Conviction would become a notable actually worth looking at.