Three myths about PoE

"

tinko92 wrote:

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

Which refers to my original post of all you people are doing is busting the balls of GGG when their cash shop fits all forms of ethical transactions, and all indirect forms of transaction that provide min amounts of any type of subjective advantage period.

Also people by dozens of them when it's on sale because they like hoarding items, it has nothing to do with the advantages of saving time or trading. They literally like hoarding items, I like collecting every single unique drop every that I will never trade and I hoard them like no tomorrow which wastes my time. Does that give me an advantage because I don't have to log into a mule and like how it looks neatly in a stash tab? Is premium stash tabs super advantages because now I can instantly know and organize all of my items with color and naming?

Also it is subjective, your definition of how you save time is subjective just like the color one. If I don't heavily trade and hoard time of items, stash tabs literally do nothing for you nor do you need more then the default.

Also I am not "claiming anything." I am literally attempting to explain to you what the common person sees as ethical and okay cash shops to not okay cash shops. You disagree with an even more harsh version of it that is even more subjective. That's okay but GGG isn't lying because that's what most people agree with. They might be lying to you because you disagree but that doesn't make it a "myth."

Now if it was something like "Why can't I earn stash tabs and effects with my in-game time." That might be something to talk about.

So, it's not that it saves time with trading, but people buy tabs for hoarding? A part of stash tab buyers do that, sure.

That is an advantage when you have everything in the same place.
Premium stash tabs are also an advantage over normal tabs, that's why people buy them.

Subjective time saving? Are you serious?
1. You're mapping, someone contacts you about the item
2. After map, you open your browser, load up PoE site and you look for the specific item among the mules.
3. Get back to the game from alt+tab
4. You contact the potential buyer about the price
5. If you struck a deal, you say to him that you're going to your mule so you can trade
6. Change character, invite the buyer, trade
7. Change character back to main
8. Ask for invite by party members, continue mapping


It's a clear advantage, and that's why it is a #1 income for GGG, there's really nothing more to discuss...

I already said that people would buy the stash tabs even if they didn't trade, unless your going to prove that wrong.

I already stated that the only type of "clear advantage" period is someone that hoards and trades so much items that they also have an item on a mule that they will trade for the person. Even then I stated that it's okay because convenience advantages is considered the most ethical and generally common accepted cash shop form.

Saying that it's indirect advantage and can't be sold in the GGG shop is dumb because nearly anything can be called an indirect advantage whenever or not it's subjective or "clear."

Therefore all we have is you busting GGG balls just because you can, you were wrong about "GGG" lying to us and unless your calling stash tabs "pay2win" and shouldn't be sold in the cash shop.Then your just skitting around any responsibility of actually having an opinion and saying they are pay2win or not and should be sold because all you want to do is point out that even though the masses and GGG agrees that convenience options with at most almost no impact in actual gameplay is okay. Spinning it as a "clear advantage" of maybe at best a few extra seconds if you exactly trade and hoard items a shit ton just because you can. Still does not in fact make the game "pay2win" or GGG "lying about it."

And I will say it again, the conversion only has any merit if you ask "Why can't I gain mtx or stash tabs with in-game play time."

If only people understood what "p2w" means before applying it to something that they simply don't like.

People who have bought tabs will always look down their nose at you, because we've supported this game (hopefully) out of affection for it and a wish to support the developers. Meanwhile, you sit here, screaming from your office-chair throne about how unfair it is that you can't get every single facet of the game for free.

I can only wonder what it would be if there were no stash microtransactions.

"People have the Extra Gore effect and I don't! It's p2w because the stuff on their screen looks cooler!"

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

"

tinko92 wrote:

First of all, it's not my definition of pay to win, I don't even use that expression, hence why I've never said it's pay to win.

What I'm saying is that company sells something that influences gameplay and yet claims it sells only cosmetic crap.

And no, it's not the same because GGG doesn't sell anything that fastens the loading times, clear logic.

I thought this is a fine discussion about stash tabs, and then you say that: "You can easily like you said yourself just make more characters as mules that the company "offers" itself"

That's just disappointing.

Other common definitions which lack the base part, GGG does not sell it.

Whenever or not GGG sells it doesn't change if it is pay2win or not. the +10 sword of awesome that can be sold in the store is still pay2win or not pay2win even if something like that isn't in the GGG store. Your going to ignore applications of spending something to save time in other games/other parts in life that is comparable to this game and toss it out because GGG doesn't do/sell it itself makes it no grounds for discussion whenever or not if it's ethical because we can't "compare" it anything else. I even gave you the whole run-down of the most popular free to play game with their much much worse cash shop in relation of saving time but nobody considers that unethical or pay 2 win.

Also what is the debate about? If it's whenever or not stash tabs are pay2win, you never said it's pay to win but you don't agree with me that it's not pay2win for the reasons I used nor the common reasons I use nor you provide why you think it is pay2win or not pay2win.

Also the company never stated it "only sells cosmetic crap." (only that it's not pay2win) By all common definitions of what they sell in the cash shop, the game is not "pay2win".

If your argument that it can sell something that influences gameplay, I literally stated even COSMETIC "crap" can effect gameplay. I even gave examples like it could make stuff easier to see/notice or easier to land abilities and so on. Therefore using your logic they can't sell 99% of the things already in the existence cash shop because it affects gameplay other then skin transfers or characters dancing.

Have you been playing Dungeons and Dragons recently? :P

Stash Tabs are definitely pay2win. They just happen to be a small enough bonus (and in a PvE game no less) that most people gloss over them.

I was staunchly against selling stash tabs and against supporting GGG when they had the old Matching Names recipe (2 matching rare names -> alch, 3 -> regal) since Stash Tabs gave you a ridiculous advantage.

Nowadays it's quite minor, and if GGG ever gets around to implementing a "mailbox" system, the benefit will be even smaller (since you'd be able to move things between mules quickly).

It's not as clean as they'd like to claim that it is ("No pay2win, only cosmetics!"), but it's so far removed from buying power directly (see also: every korean grinder on the market) that it seems okay to let it slide.

As for the claim that GGG made a p2w game because RMT exists, that's just absurd. They've cracked down on a lot of RMT (and there's a lot more to go), and it's one place that they're trying the best the can. The only way to completely stop RMT is to stop player trading entirely, and that's something that GGG simply won't do.

---

Regarding myth #1, it's not like the OP has never used a chromatic or alteration or alchemy. There are "the orbs you use" and then there are the "rare orbs". So it's not that they're all gold or that they're all crafting components. If GGG ever gets on making chaos+ more usable at lower levels (via a few systems that have been discussed here), then it'll be pretty much entirely crafting components with a Mirror as the only "rare orb".

Regarding myth #3, there's a huge difference between a searchable board (poe.xyz) and an auction house (the same + automated trading). Automatic buyouts and AFK selling makes the markets much more efficient than they currently are. Said another way, automatic buyouts and AFK selling removes bartering.

There isn't really a reason for GGG not to take poe.xyz into the fold other than not having complete control over it. I hope they institute something like it in the future. (Imagine a "Selling" board much like the "Party" board. You walk up to it, type in what you're looking for, and a few names pop up. PM them and you're on the way to making the trade.)

"

tinko92 wrote:

It might not yield fun, but it would certainly remove pain in the ass trades.

Why dont you blame the trade system to be that pain-in-the-ass? I'm waiting for improvements since their first announcements... even with kind of 'enough' stash ^^ If someone's relying on trades, he'll always fucked up actually.

Using a mule account even can easify your main progress: you can act with the mule without interrupting/leaving with your main char... (You'll need some good sort of organisation, of course - more then to just glance through dozens of tabs)

"

tinko92 wrote:

Can you toss out the "pay to win" expression out of this, please?

If we dont discuss about p2w, then about what? That the stash extensions give an advantage, is out of the question. Can it be unethical, if its NOT p2w?