Mana Issues With Lightning Arrow Ranger

Someone suggested I play a lightning arrow ranger. Having never tried it before, I said, "Why not?" Here's what I'm doing so far:



I don't really think my passives are relevant to this other than general questions that could be answered without them, but I'm sure someone will ask, so here they are. :P Nothing super complicated -- iron reflexes, frenzy charges, life, and some offensive stats. I'm ready for my eventual trek into the scion life node. I completely missed the bow circle between point blank and Ondar's Guile, but that's on my to do list as well.

I have heard of people having issues with mana regarding LA. However, I am not entirely sure how they manage. I had expected to run grace and haste on mana, then run clarity off of my life and use a mana leech gem if necessary. However, I currently cannot even use LA with two auras activated. This is to be expected, as my reduced mana gem is not very high leveled yet, nor have I upgraded it to a quality one. The issue is that even with grace turned off, and a mana leech gem socketed, I run out of mana rather quickly.

Am I expected to take mana passives? I've always considered that sort of a waste, but if it's generally considered necessary for LA (which seems to be a high mana per second skill, as I've never had a mana issue that remained unresolved after both clarity AND a mana leech gem. Correct me if I'm wrong, please). I'm literally right next to a few. I'm ready to take these, but only as a last resort...



A few notes on gear and gems:
-- Removing the Perandus Blazon lowers my STR/INT enough that I can no longer use any of my red gems, clarity, or my boots and gloves. This is no good. :( However, I'd like to use a better belt. Maybe something with WED, life, and res (like the other belt I've linked, but better).
-- Rings are what I had. I know they're kind of rubbish, but I haven't spent anything on this char other than the few fusings I threw into the bow. They're on my "things to upgrade" list.
-- Regarding my LA links, am I doing it right? If I ever manage to get rid of the mana leech gem, the plan is to put LMP on there.
-- Blood rage currently chews through my HP. I'm thinking of doing my respec quests to pull out of crit/evasion temporarily for scion life nodes. If I were to do that, I could swap out mana leech and WED in my bow for LMP and blood magic and most likely resolve my mana issues in exchange for a big DPS hit. This is another last resort strategy, but I'm not yet sure if it's more or less of a last resort strategy than wasting passives on the mana nodes I'd otherwise never get. At least the life nodes are things I plan to get later...
-- I'm not currently cursing. I'm thinking of running CWDT + Warlord's but I don't currently have the links and I don't want to invest in linking gear that's not even worth selling. Would this potentially be enough to eliminate my mana problems? Would it then allow me to ditch the mana leech gem in favor of LMP? Would I maybe be able to get rid of clarity?
-- Finally, is that bow worth exalting? 199% phys roll alone is great right? Then it could potentially get IAS or flat damage?
EDIT: I guess finally was a lie. I just want to mention here that I know the quiver is shit too. I just haven't found anything better yet.

I guess that's it. Sorry if this post got less readable at the end (or if it was unreadable from the getgo O_o), I am just about falling asleep at the keyboard here. Time for bed...

1) Your build is not optimal. You need to change that a bit :) Find a guide and aim towards a lvl 80+ build. Remove all evasion nodes in the middle and those crit nodes and reapply them elsewhere.

use this for starters.

or

The choice depends on your long term plan.

2) You should not really use mana with lightning arrow. In general you use split arrow, if you don't want to use blood magic (either talent node or gem).

3) Do not use blood rage :O You need either blood dance boots or a much higher hp pool. Don't use it. Not that early.

4) You should not life leech physical dmg (warlords mark), since only a small fraction of your damage is physical. You need life leech gem (especially since you want blood magic).

5) No you should not exalt your bow. You need a new bow :) its only 178 pdps. If you cannot afford a new one, at least make it 20q.

well... a few points on LA.

If your having problems with LA, just run lmp+chain+bloodmagic+life on hit

u absolutely need life on hit. This will fix your sustain problems.

"

Omjak_777 wrote:

well... a few points on LA.

If your having problems with LA, just run lmp+chain+bloodmagic+life on hit

u absolutely need life on hit. This will fix your sustain problems.

or just use Omjak's guide! :D

i don't like to advertise my guide unless people specifically ask for guide references xD. for humility reasons.

I don't use guides. I feel that following someone else's build puts preconceived notions into one's head that are hard to go back on, and thus stifle experimentation. I just think that people who find the "next big thing" can't be people who have followed other people's guides from start to finish. I understand that you can't learn everything on your own, which is why I occasionally ask specific questions like this. I have been told before, "That is dumb, shut up and follow a guide," but I just don't believe it. This is why I almost didn't post my build at all.

As well as being my first LA build, it's also my first attempt at a crit build, so I'm trying to grab all the crit nodes I can. I did glance at your suggestions regarding my skill tree, and realized that I also missed the 80% crit chance for bows in the bottom right corner. As for the evasion nodes you suggested I remove, I admit that I may have taken that route a little early, but I don't think that removing them is the solution. The plan is to continue upwards, grabbing that next cluster of crit chance nodes. Are there still more, more efficient crit nodes that I'm missing?

Regarding Blood Dance, I used them, the 24% chance didn't seem like it was working out very well in my favor, and so I stashed them in favor of the res boots I currently use. I was hoping not to have to go the blood magic route, but I suppose I'll have to give it a shot. I am already somewhat displeased with my killing speed, and it saddens me to think I might have to cut my DPS. :(

Anyway, thanks for the help guys.

Not to mention that with LA ranger, to get up the single target DPS is real pain. :-)

You don't have to go BM, but you need a better bow to do enough damage to sustain with Mana Leech on it. The output on that bow is too low so your Mana leech is low, and it's a fast bow so it uses more mana.

It's a decent start to a bow, it just needs a + physical damage roll. But if you can't afford to exalt it, there should be fairly inexpensive upgrades available. Look for both + physical% and + physical damage.

Considering you have a 5l Bow, yolo exalting might not be a bad idea. I think you have 2 prefixes left...unless your physical% and accuracy is from a hybrid roll - in which case you sill have 1 prefix. I would exalt that bow. You potentially have 2 prefixes left, and even if you end up getting an elemental one it will help you. Really nothing to lose other than 2ex, and a fairly likely successful upgrade.

But, regardless how you go about it - improving your bow will allow Mana Leech on Lightning Arrow to sustain just fine.

Until you improve your bow, I also recommend Pierce gem instead of Chain. Easier on mana.

Also - another idea tree based. Reroute all those evasion nodes and the 3x 15% crit nodes and go north from Projectile Mastery and then left. Hit the aura nodes and Mana Geyser. The aura nodes will let you play with more of your mana pool which might currently be taken up by 1 or more auras, and also allow you to add a lower level clarity. And Mana Geyser is all around awesome. Keep in mind your Max mana also determines both your innate mana regen, as well as your leech cap. So upping it is useful.

Edit: I am an idiot - it's 199% which is above tyrannical - you do have the hybrid roll. One prefix and 1 suffix left. You have to exalt the bow. Honestly, depending on currency, I might eternal exalt. With 199% landing a decent physical roll will shoot the DPS on this well over 300. And crit chance and IAS suffixes are in play. As is, this bow has a high ceiling.

LA works best with Chain, and the LA+Chain combo works wonders with Life Gain on Hit (or Life Leech at very high levels). This makes Blood Magic is a no-brainer and basically mandatory.

If you don't want to go Blood Magic or are too far removed from it in the tree, just get an extra link and use the Blood Magic skillgem.

Mana leech is an option, but aside from the support gem is generally based on your physical damage. While most LA builds will rely on high physical damage converted, it's still not ideal. The same goes for life leech, but with a life based expenditure, you can buff your life regeneration, which then benefits both your survivability as well as your 'mana' pool. Also, you have the LGoH option, which is completely independent from your damage output.

"

Filousov wrote:

Not to mention that with LA ranger, to get up the single target DPS is real pain. :-)

Yup!

For single target damage, I went 7+ charge Frenzy + Added Lightning Damage (to benefit from all the lightning buffs I'd taken), and it's still a huge pain.

Hello,

I agree about the Guide following which is not really mandatory all the time (no offense Omjak, your guide is still great!) when players wants specific answers and follow their own Path (this is what the game is good for).

Now about mana Issue, I think refusing to take a little bit of mana Passives and finding Mana Issues is expected. Taking 3 passives (literaly 3 total points) would be enough to solve at least many large mana issue problem ( I am thinking of the nodes near Charisma, they are damn good for a couple of points). Considering your level its intended to have mana issues because late game (not super high end game don't misunderstand this) scales better for Mana.

But hey here some solutions while sticking to your main ideas, you should use one or all of them, they 're independant and easy to setup (I advice using or try using them) :

Clarity
You tried it but I don't think you really put some efforts on it, Mana Flat Regen alone can't do the work for you. Let's say you take it to level 7 or above level 10-12 that would make 10-13 Flat Mana Regen which is far away from your current requirements. But this Flat is Multiplied by Increased Mana Regen (and that s why Mana Geyser 3 points near is really good in your case) and taking just 100% (with the mentionned Mana Geyser) and some in your gear (what about a Paua Amulet you already have, and a ring maybe with 30%? Adding the Mana (+28%) coupled with increased Mana Regen would change your 12 Mana / Second to a 30 Mana / Second without playing numbers around the Improved Mana Leech taht should give (+28%).

Mana Leech
This is something Physical Base Bow Users should consider MORE, Leech is based on physical damage (Let 's skip the gem you want to throw it anyway). So having a ring/quiver/glove/amulet/weapon( bad choice on weapon) wouldn't be a big sacrifice, that would allow at least considering your small mana pool (easy to figure out with the Tree and Gear) 30 Mana / Second from the 12% Max Cap on Mana Leech. Just this on one single gear slot would do wonders.

Gear
Gear is changing, but some can be changed over an hybrid that can hold Mana / Mana Regen (Templar or Shadow or even Witch gear), they don't lower your dps tremendeously and they does not cost so highly, adding a boot with 30 int, 40 mana , 60 life and 30 ms + some kind resists wouldn't kill anyone to buy for a couple of chaos. And don't get me wrong, you CAN'T improve your status if you don't invest time on it (time is currency my friend!) because this is what all H&Slash requires.
Mana and Mana sustain overall works with a formula that should look like this :
Mana Max (Int + Mana + Passive) x Mana Leech
+ Mana Max (Int + Mana + Passive) x Mana Regen
+ Clarity x Mana Regen

And as you can see, Max Mana and Mana Regen wears a big place into it, adding some in all the things you have here can really improve your current Mana Sustain.

Skill Cost & Damage Effectiveness
You can improve your Mana Sustain but also improve the Damage effectiveness of your skill (Mana / Damage). As I can see, you link Chain, probably LMP and Faster Attacks (plus Weapon Elemental Damage but its mandatory here) and this cost like a HelllLLot. This is again against your current situation, you don't want Mana passive, don't have mana leech on gear while playing physical and play Super Costly Support Gems (200%, 150% for LMP/Chain).
LMP and Chain are AoE utility Support because they don't (basically) increase your Damage but you overall AoE Damage, doing both would be probably overkill at this point.
So? It would be better to decrease the Mana per Second cost of your LA.
1 : Reducing the Bow Attack Speed, you play Physical Base, clearing speed is not fully linked to Bow Base Attack Speed.
2 : Switching Faster Attacks over Physical Projectile Damage, which is reallly beter for Mana Leech and Mana Cost.
3 : Maybe start off LMP over Chain (150% against 200%)
4 : Consider other Support Damage Gem with low Multiplier (Added Fire, ...)
5 : Playing more Offensive Auras, this is not really explicit, but having Offensive Auras does not cost MORE mana on your skill. More Damage, Less shots, Less Mana crying.

Blood Magic
This is a way for Mana Haters but you should remember that is a huge DPS nerf and life consuming. I instead advice to use Blood Magic for none-main-skill gems such as Curses and Supportive Spells that would drop your mana (Enduring Cry and wahtever you can think of that is not a curse).


I am not giving details about the Passive Tree you have but indeed like others mentionned, there is some wrong passives (I talk about optimization, not choices this is different).