I don't think I understand reflect

"
I don't know how you can 'block' something like a fireball reflect with a shield or dual wielding (parrying?). It's instant and invisible, it makes absolutely zero sense and you can't use the 'thaumaturgy' scapegoat because there's nothing magical about blocking, parrying or evading/dodging...
It sounds a lot like you're misunderstanding how reflect works. You can't, under normal circumstances, block reflected fireball damage. You need to be able to block spell damage to do that, which isn't standard. And in the case when you can, you are able to block the reflected fireball damage because you're able to block a fireball's damage, and the reflected damage is the same as what it's reflected from.

The only reason you're ever able to block a reflected fireball with your shield is because you can block a fireball with your shield, and the fact it's reflected makes no difference - it doesn't change anything. If you can block a fireball, you can block a reflected fireball. If you can dodge on (phase acrobatics) you can dodge it's reflection. If you can't do those things, then you can't to the reflection, either.

Personally, I can't think of anything more intuitive than treating reflected damage exactly the same as the thing it's reflecting from - saying you can block the damage from an enemy's magical fireball with your shield, but if an enemy reflects the damage from your own, identical, magical fireball back at you you suddenly can't, would be completely unintuitive.
And before it gets brought up again, the reason all of the above can't be animated is because it would be a complete mess, for the same reason that animating a dodge/evade/block would just be a bunch of stuttery, sloppy interrupted animations. You can take 10+ reflected hits in a single attack/cast on most any build.
"
Mark_GGG wrote:
"

Personally, I can't think of anything more intuitive than treating reflected damage exactly the same as the thing it's reflecting from - saying you can block the damage from an enemy's magical fireball with your shield, but if an enemy reflects the damage from your own, identical, magical fireball back at you you suddenly can't, would be completely unintuitive.


There is no feedback. If you have a fireball or arrow being shot at you it makes sense that you can block it.

Nothing is really being reflected, I don't see my fireball being shot back at me or bouncing off enemies. It's instantaneous invisible damage from an unknown source/location.

Where does the reflected damage come from and where does it impact me? Does it have to go through my armour? Shield? I can launch a firestorm or shoot an arrow with chain and run around the corner and still take reflect damage instantaneously but apparently I can evade it?

Don't forget that we are not talking about a fireball being reflected but damage being reflected.

"
saying you can block the damage from an enemy's magical fireball with your shield, but if an enemy reflects the damage from your own, identical, magical fireball back at you you suddenly can't, would be completely unintuitive.


This doesn't make any sense for example, you block the projectile that is a fireball and thereby you reduce (or in this case negate) the damage aspect from it. Makes sense right? If I block an arrow that means the arrow hits my shield and it will deal less/no damage. 'Physical' and 'Elemental' prefixes specifically state that they reflect damage and not the thing causing the damage and it just makes me wonder how you can block 'damage', what the fuck is 'damage' supposed to be? It's a side-effect from something interacting with you but with reflect there is 0.00 feedback as to what is actually interacting with you, you just take damage and nothing else.

Don't get me wrong I like being able to block/evade/reduce reflected damage it opens up more counterplay options, but don't tell me it's intuitive because it really, really isn't.

EDIT: another argument (albeit a poorer one than the one I have already presented) is that in other notable games such as d2 (iron maiden), d3 etc. this is totally not the case meaning the frame of reference of people playing these type of ARPGs will be biased towards it not working that way. Yeh sure you can make the argument that there's no reason why it is supposed to be the same as the other games but even though you're right that doesn't change the actual expectations, if I open a banana I expect it to be yellow so if I were asked what colour will this banana be and I say yellow and it turns out to be red I can say it is unintuitive even though there is no real reason as to why it should be yellow except for that it's normally yellow.
Beyond league.
Last edited by SEXYSUPERSATAN on Feb 5, 2014, 5:14:02 AM
how about reflecting reflected damage?
"
Mark_GGG wrote:
It sounds a lot like you're misunderstanding how reflect works. You can't, under normal circumstances, block reflected fireball damage. You need to be able to block spell damage to do that, which isn't standard. And in the case when you can, you are able to block the reflected fireball damage because you're able to block a fireball's damage, and the reflected damage is the same as what it's reflected from.

The only reason you're ever able to block a reflected fireball with your shield is because you can block a fireball with your shield, and the fact it's reflected makes no difference - it doesn't change anything. If you can block a fireball, you can block a reflected fireball. If you can dodge on (phase acrobatics) you can dodge it's reflection. If you can't do those things, then you can't to the reflection, either.

Personally, I can't think of anything more intuitive than treating reflected damage exactly the same as the thing it's reflecting from - saying you can block the damage from an enemy's magical fireball with your shield, but if an enemy reflects the damage from your own, identical, magical fireball back at you you suddenly can't, would be completely unintuitive.


The fireball explanation makes sense but what about melee damage? The fireball is a visible projectile which can be bounced back but what does a reflected sword swing look like?
"
This doesn't make any sense for example, you block the projectile that is a fireball and thereby you reduce (or in this case negate) the damage aspect from it. Makes sense right? If I block an arrow that means the arrow hits my shield and it will deal less/no damage. 'Physical' and 'Elemental' prefixes specifically state that they reflect damage and not the thing causing the damage and it just makes me wonder how you can block 'damage', what the fuck is 'damage' supposed to be? It's a side-effect from something interacting with you but with reflect there is 0.00 feedback as to what is actually interacting with you, you just take damage and nothing else.


Ah, so you're all about number 2 from my list, then?
That's good, statistics show that fans of "Pain reflection" concept are a bit oldfashioned but dependable, generally serious but with a dry wit, usually very practical. Their favorite colors are blue, black or gray, animals are eagle, wolf or buffalo, and their favored sex position is most often missionary.
Есть один путь - наверх!

◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]►
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]►
"
vaskov17 wrote:
The fireball is a visible projectile which can be bounced back but what does a reflected sword swing look like?


I picture it as the enemy parrying your attack that gets deflected in your face - you have the chance to evade your own sword :)
When night falls
She cloaks the world
In impenetrable darkness
If you couldn't mitigate reflect, it'd be a hard cap on how much damage you do. You'd be limited to (life+ES)/.15 damage. Do you really want that?
Guild Leader The Amazon Basin <BASIN>
Play Nice and Show Some Class www.theamazonbasin.com
"
vaskov17 wrote:
how about reflecting reflected damage?

The perfect response.
"
mark1030 wrote:
If you couldn't mitigate reflect, it'd be a hard cap on how much damage you do. You'd be limited to (life+ES)/.15 damage. Do you really want that?


a good old closed/open beta , lets stack resists and life and play ele builds :D WEEEE
Last edited by khemintiri on Feb 5, 2014, 10:44:46 AM

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info