Animation canceling

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VideoGeemer wrote:

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thormond wrote:

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VideoGeemer wrote:

In order to keep up with better players we'd all kinda have to learn to do this, and if the enemies were boosted to compensate, then we'd *really* have to do it. Rather than just playing.

Ill translate this, it says: "Rather than learning how to play games in order to be able to contest game content on harder difficulties and have fun from progressing as a player, it's better to just faceroll content with some cookie cutter ranged builds and get dem mad currencies !"

it hits the nail I guess

What I mean is, I don't want to be FORCED to play in a way that tricks out the animations just in order to have a viable build, which would be likely to happen if the method were introduced. There are games that may do this, and they may be great, but this game was never about that, and it should not change to become that way.

Now, if there's a way to do it without this issue arising, then maybe it's not so terrible.

so you are simply afraid of having to learn the easiest and most intuitive mechanic from competitive games just because it's from competitive games

even bronze leaguers in LoL can do animation cancel (unconsciously), I teached bunch of my noob IRL friends how to do that in the matter of 15 minutes, actually EVERYONE is doing that unconsciously to some extent (whether it's 5% or 10% margin) - all you do after you realize how that works is pushing the threshold of time gained further on
you would be one of these 'conscious ones' with advantage just by reading this topic (realising is a huge step up), what's the problem? T.T

So using animation canceling is more "pro" than planing with an animation? In what way? Just because it is in MobA games?
PoE is an ARPG. Look at your list with games that have animation cancelling, not that much ARPGs on it, right?

I understand the importance of juking and all that fun stuff. But, I do see an issue with animation cancelling in pvp as it seems to be a key point for this thread.

Currently, projectiles without "faster projectiles" mod fly relatively slow, and straight line. Even with faster projectiles, many mage spells are still easily dodgable by simply walking left/right. While animation cancelling would empower melee, it would significantly reduce casters ability to hit a target with the high damage single target abilities by allowing more time to react to/evade the projectile.

Example:

On my Shadow I commonly run into a room that is full of mobs, and seeing casters...I will run in a circle until they have fired their spells which will all miss me because i'm moving. As soon as a spell is fired, I flicker strike in, do 1-2 dual strikes, then whirling blades out for the casts and flicker strike back in. I can easily clear a room of caster mobs without ever getting hit like this.

Now, so you understand the severity of this...walk into a room full of casters and run in a circle. The spells will never hit you.

Also go fight brutus, stand at range. Just simply step left/right and you can dodge a relatively fast projectile.

Lets take it a step further. Totem + Skeleton = constant projectile blocking. A melee dps with even weak low level skeletons/totem can flood a caster with them so they have to rely on weaker hitting AoE abilities. Killing the totem does no good, it has no cooldown. I have used this tactic to kill most bosses with little to no effert by simply skeleton flooding them while I dps.

Animation cancelling would do nothing for the casters since their projectiles lock on to the location you were when the projectile fired, not you. This would limit all casters to only AoE spells for pvp.

On the one hand, I do kinda like the idea of animation cancelling. Giving the player better control of their dude on the screen is just about always nice.

That said, with the current state of the servers, I don't think this is a good idea to implement right now.

I also don't feel that it is at all good for the game to let animation cancelling boost your DPS. If you look at SC2, stutter step doesn't actually increase DPS, it just keeps your army mobile while you're attacking (of course, that mobility tends to lead to more units attacking, which turns into more damage, but each, individual unit doesn't have a DPS boost).

So, by all means, put it in the game but don't make it required to do it all the time in order to be good at the game.

Canceling Animation is really good idea.
1) It will really give POE Good Climate.
2) In RTS grid games there should be some kind of canceling animation making game smoother and and its increasing the game depth.
3) It will give Even better approach and it will make game more fun and enjoyable.

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thormond wrote:

so you are simply afraid of having to learn the easiest and most intuitive mechanic from competitive games just because it's from competitive games

If that's how you want to take it ... then yes, I suppose. I'm not sure that "afraid" is the word, but the meaning is similar.

I don't want to have to hit a whole shitload of keys in order to survive in the game.; PoE was never about how fast one could click. We already have to fire, strafe, and monitor all sorts of other things, and that's cool. There is some required skill there. But as far as having to do all that timing stuff just to hope I get a strong enough hit and don't cancel too soon, but cancel soon enough so that I can hopefully get off another shot before I have to strafe ... And as far as monsters getting buffed because twitchy players can kill them faster now ...

As I said before, for a PvP league this could actually be really cool, because it would give advanced players more control and a faster pace of competition. It might be fun to learn the techniques in such an environment. I just don't think it should be forced into the normal game, that's all. It's already complicated enough--and fun--without us needing to worry about, well, if you click something else you might not actually fire your attack, because the game things you want to cancel even though it's started animating the attack. And if you just hold the fire key, you won't actually fire at anything near full-speed.

Nah, the animations are the length they are for a reason. Shorten this, and the whole game would have to be rebalanced due to faster attack times.

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Gathnarius wrote:

Now, so you understand the severity of this...walk into a room full of casters and run in a circle. The spells will never hit you.

Also go fight brutus, stand at range. Just simply step left/right and you can dodge a relatively fast projectile.

True. And there's something positive to be said for the feeling of "Ah, shit. I need to fire, but if I do, they might be able to hit me too while I'm still for a second." Much better IMO than "they can't hit me, lalala..." or "damn it, I can't hit them, no matter what I do."

I want animation cancelling too. No animation cancelling was the first thing I noticed. I guess I got used to it. PvP will be more fun with animation cancelling.

Implementing animation cancelling would require implementation of lock on projectile abilities to balance pvp. Otherwise, melee would be extremely overpowered.

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VideoGeemer wrote:

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thormond wrote:

so you are simply afraid of having to learn the easiest and most intuitive mechanic from competitive games just because it's from competitive games

If that's how you want to take it ... then yes, I suppose. I'm not sure that "afraid" is the word, but the meaning is similar.

I don't want to have to hit a whole shitload of keys in order to survive in the game.; PoE was never about how fast one could click. We already have to fire, strafe, and monitor all sorts of other things, and that's cool. There is some required skill there. But as far as having to do all that timing stuff just to hope I get a strong enough hit and don't cancel too soon, but cancel soon enough so that I can hopefully get off another shot before I have to strafe ... And as far as monsters getting buffed because twitchy players can kill them faster now ...

As I said before, for a PvP league this could actually be really cool, because it would give advanced players more control and a faster pace of competition. It might be fun to learn the techniques in such an environment. I just don't think it should be forced into the normal game, that's all. It's already complicated enough--and fun--without us needing to worry about, well, if you click something else you might not actually fire your attack, because the game things you want to cancel even though it's started animating the attack. And if you just hold the fire key, you won't actually fire at anything near full-speed.

Nah, the animations are the length they are for a reason. Shorten this, and the whole game would have to be rebalanced due to faster attack times.

I believe they want the time between initiating an attack and the attack actually triggering/happening to be the same as it is now, they just want the attack to be cancelable during that time frame. The animation after the attack has triggered/happened is still forced to play out in full.

So completing an attack still leaves you vulnerable.

This creates the problem where laggy players easily interrupt there attacks before they happen iirc.