Wealth without trading

I must be one of those outliers on the 1 ex/100 hours graph then, since I'd recon I've got around 500 hours total played (not entirely sure of an exact number, and I really can't be bothered to get a /played on all my characters and then work out how long I've been afk etc...) but I have yet to see a single exalt drop.


For reference, I play almost exclusively self found and mostly solo (I'll occasionally buy a bit of gear/gem and maybe party up for a boss/easy progression) and I consider myself "rich" when I hit around 30 alchs + 15-20c in the stash.


From experience, I could usually count on getting somewhere between 5-10 alchs and a few chaos from an evening of playing (maybe 5-6 hours on a weekday and 8-10 on a weekend). This in itself will comprise of mostly farming, with about 10-15% progression (I like to level new characters, hence the high progression ratio).

With reference to the crafting topic: I do find myself throwing a fair amount of currency at gear to get an upgrade, usually ending up with something a bit mediocre. I tend to then cut my losses, farm for a bit and find a cheap upgrade on poe.xyz that'll see me through at least two more acts, sometimes even a full difficulty.

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reboticon wrote:

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Zalm wrote:

I think thats the issue we have more often than not. People see others with epic godly gear and think that eventually they deserve getting gear similar to this. They think they are owed it.

They are in fact, owed nothing, but when they think this way, with how closed minded and stubborn people are in todays era, they are unlikely to be persuaded otherwise. They dont deserve godly gear, they arent owed it, but they think simply because other people have it, and they have invested enough time, they are owed. Being wrong is something this generation of gamer has an issue with.

Personally, I disagree completely. It's a video game, not a job. If you put in 300 hours grinding for gear, yeah, I feel you are owed that gear, because it's a game, and it's pixels, and one would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that the point is to have fun. One would also assume that after a certain amount of time farming, you would get a good drop, because these games function entirely as a skinner box. Without reward, people eventually break themselves from the box, and then they aren't going to buy microtransactions.

Wholeheartedly agree. Many hours invested and the only good drops I had were a pair of rainbowstrides and an andy ring pre release in OB. Post release most of my wealth comes from chaos recipe unid/id, and uptrading low currencies. I don't want things to be super easy and come to quickly but the rate at which anything worth a damn drops for any particular player is way to low. You can not disagree its the facts. Meanwhile we have mind numbing flippers that barely play the actual game and play the stock market of a video game racking up the currency. Flipping is well and good...but it seems the quickest option of making good wealth if you are good at it and can sit in trade and on the tradechat websites for hours at a time.

I have a couple characters (non MF) around lvl 80 that can farm Dominus-- probably around 30iiq/100 iir.. Each run takes about 5 minutes ( can go fast enough that Sceptre of God doresn't reset), and I drop about 7 to 8 alts per run worth of equipment. I'd say in addition to that I get on average one item for the Chaos recipe each run as well (I mean the rings/ amulets, which are rarer) and maybe 1 unique per run, and maybe half a map. I'm not going to bother counting currency drops.

Given 12 runs per hour, that works out to:
12* 7 = 84 alts
12*1 /3 = 4 chaos
12* 1 = 12 uniques
12* 0.5 = 6 maps (66)

So with the 20:1 alt: chaos ratio, I make 8 chaos in pure currency. Uniques can be converted to 5 chances each, though the process is kind of time consuming (otherwise yay for alts). In total, I think 10 chaos is a decent estimate of how much you could make in an hour.

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curryflurry wrote:

I have a couple characters (non MF) around lvl 80 that can farm Dominus-- probably around 30iiq/100 iir.. Each run takes about 5 minutes ( can go fast enough that Sceptre of God doresn't reset), and I drop about 7 to 8 alts per run worth of equipment. I'd say in addition to that I get on average one item for the Chaos recipe each run as well (I mean the rings/ amulets, which are rarer) and maybe 1 unique per run, and maybe half a map. I'm not going to bother counting currency drops.

Given 12 runs per hour, that works out to:
12* 7 = 84 alts
12*1 /3 = 4 chaos
12* 1 = 12 uniques
12* 0.5 = 6 maps (66)

So with the 20:1 alt: chaos ratio, I make 8 chaos in pure currency. Uniques can be converted to 5 chances each, though the process is kind of time consuming (otherwise yay for alts). In total, I think 10 chaos is a decent estimate of how much you could make in an hour.

Which then translates to roughly 3 hours/per exalt in dominations currency economy. I fail to see the good news here.

ive done many maps, by now atleast 5000+solo maps, ive seen people get to lvl 99 doing less maps and logging less time than me just because they farmed in group and on higher lvl maps when solo wasn´t viable.

yea you will eventually get rich just because of the amount of drops you get, i can list some of my drops i remember

3 marohi
2 tabularasa(the only 6 links ive ever had droped for me)
2 lioneye
4 BoR
5 rainbowstride
4 alpha howl
1 oros sacrifice
1 dream fragment
1 midnight bargain
1 andavarius
2 dyadus

0 kaom
0 soultaker
0 shavrone


half of those maps where using a 100/400+ mf character, and the other half flicker striker, i can say that half of the drops mentioned where on a 0% mf character, i even believe that mf means shit when it comes to "good" uniques, but maybe my sample isnt big enough, i run more maps everyday and it has the same result, mf only help you getting flooded with vine circlets and kaom signets.

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xSyK0TiC wrote:

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curryflurry wrote:

I have a couple characters (non MF) around lvl 80 that can farm Dominus-- probably around 30iiq/100 iir.. Each run takes about 5 minutes ( can go fast enough that Sceptre of God doresn't reset), and I drop about 7 to 8 alts per run worth of equipment. I'd say in addition to that I get on average one item for the Chaos recipe each run as well (I mean the rings/ amulets, which are rarer) and maybe 1 unique per run, and maybe half a map. I'm not going to bother counting currency drops.

Given 12 runs per hour, that works out to:
12* 7 = 84 alts
12*1 /3 = 4 chaos
12* 1 = 12 uniques
12* 0.5 = 6 maps (66)

So with the 20:1 alt: chaos ratio, I make 8 chaos in pure currency. Uniques can be converted to 5 chances each, though the process is kind of time consuming (otherwise yay for alts). In total, I think 10 chaos is a decent estimate of how much you could make in an hour.

Which then translates to roughly 3 hours/per exalt in dominations currency economy. I fail to see the good news here.

I mean, if you want to buy a super GG item it'll take forever to get one. On the other hand if you're interested in buying equipment that is 90% as good as those "mirror-worthy" items, its very possible to get to that point. If you shop well, you can get a very nice set of equipment for around 10-20 ex, which honestly isn't too much to ask for.

I honestly don't see the point of trading much in Domination's economy either, as at the end of the League it'll all get moved to Standard where the item pool is much bigger, older and cheaper. I play almost exclusively self-found (minus a few leveling uniques) on Domination because the inflation is just silly. But those are my personal thoughts on 3 month leagues.

The above 10 chaos/ hr rate is with a solo play, non-MF character. If you optimize, you can probably push your currency/ hr much higher as well. Plus, I'm not including the value of drops, which can potentially boost your earnings significantly even when averaged out over a long period of time.

tl;dr don't expect to be warren buffet of POE by grinding, but you can own a audi a7 if you try

Doesn't GGG already have this data?

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Absolutely not... I'm not looking to modify the game at all. I am vocally opposed to a self found league. I'm not looking to become "wealthy". I'm looking for a reasonable estimate as to what can be expected to be had through reasonable play without trading. That's all.

I don't see how that's possible. You can start off with a run-of-the-mill build and farm Piety with a 250 dps 2-hander. With bad luck you might be stuck to this weapon for a very, very long time.
Then again, you might find a 400 dps weapon in your first runs and suddenly everything speeds up.

Thing is, there not enough people playing solo-selffound AND knowing how much currency they can make within a certain amount of time AND who are posting in this thread to make any kind of assumptions about it's porential to build "wealth".

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Jojas wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Absolutely not... I'm not looking to modify the game at all. I am vocally opposed to a self found league. I'm not looking to become "wealthy". I'm looking for a reasonable estimate as to what can be expected to be had through reasonable play without trading. That's all.

I don't see how that's possible. You can start off with a run-of-the-mill build and farm Piety with a 250 dps 2-hander. With bad luck you might be stuck to this weapon for a very, very long time.
Then again, you might find a 400 dps weapon in your first runs and suddenly everything speeds up.

Thing is, there not enough people playing solo-selffound AND knowing how much currency they can make within a certain amount of time AND who are posting in this thread to make any kind of assumptions about it's porential to build "wealth".

You could say something about how much wealth you would get, on average, on a new self-found character after 100 hours of play.

As you say, though, you're not going to find that from a forum thread.

Every day I witness the hard fought Exiles clinging to life in a harsh brutal world. Everything says they should all be dead but yet they still fight on.
Wealth? My good sir! I am RICH. The spirit of the exiles is all the wealth I'll ever need!