Wealth without trading
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I know that the concept of "wealth" doesn't really apply directly to solo play, but in terms of functionality it does. For the purposes of this discussion, we'll borrow the ideas of wealth from the trading portion of the player base as a close approximation. We'll also only count currency from drops and vendors... not count the wealth found by getting a unique or quality skill gem to drop. This is mainly because these items can't be converted to currency playing self-found.
My purpose here is to discuss what is a reasonable cost for things like the mysterious new "very useful for higher level players" vendor recipe mentioned in the 1.0.5 teaser today. I would hope that this would be accessible to people who don't trade for wealth. That got me thinking about how much wealth can one expect to get by playing solo/self found. It's my belief, but hardly scientifically shown, that a rate of about 1 exalt/100 hours is a reasonable number. It's certainly less than 1ex/10hrs and more than 1ex/1000hrs. Refining this approximation is one of the goals of this discussion. Collecting opinions as to if this is too low or too high is not. Let's stick to measuring what we have so that the feedback provided GGG can give a clear picture as to what self-found players can expect to have access to. This number is important if GGG has any hope of balancing the game to make self found play "equally viable". My question to the community: What do you think the rate is for self-found play? It will certainly vary based on play style... I'm not looking for an absolute. |
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if you hard core grind , and i do mean HARDcore grind with a reasonably fast build and good mf
you can make around 80 alterations an hour + around 2-4 chaos an hour + ancillary items like 6s or just plane orb drops. that is strictly middle of the pack , neither the worst nor the best. exalted orbs are an exception , not the standard. if you are dedicated .. maybe 3 hours of boring as fuck grindage , you could probably make 20c a day. but again that is contingent on how good your gear is , if we are talking exclusively self found without even getting basic 1chaos a pop gear , then that number would realistically be cut in half. but to be frank, from what i understand self found to be, i think of not selling items , buying is still more or less fair game due to how much more efficient it is in the long run. |
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hard to tell.. I have now (in SC):
5 characters lvl 70+ 3 lvl 50+ I have found 8ex, 3 divine, around 20 GCP.. so I believe 1ex/100h could be my case (when counting Exalts drops only) But when it comes to other drops "value", I have no clue (30 stash tabs full) ..and many more good rares.. PS: I would not measure my "wealth" by Exalteds because I find them not so much useful for selffound player (until you have many of them/I used only one on Siege Axe^) compared to chaos/fusings. When I talk about my wealth its allways about non-currency items IGN: Eric_Lindros CET: Timezone Last edited by Ludvator on Dec 30, 2013, 10:17:25 AM
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Right... we have a different meaning for wealth. Got that. But I'm borrowing the term from the trading community so we can discuss a reasonable rate in relationship to vendor recipe costs.
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yes I think I got your point.. you dont want new recipes that only traders can use (like bandit respec one)..and I agree with that
But what is this thread about? We dont know the recipe nor anything about exalts being involved. "wealth" is relative and Exalts drops are random.. How could you gather some meaningful data? e:typos IGN: Eric_Lindros CET: Timezone Last edited by Ludvator on Dec 30, 2013, 10:27:14 AM
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I used the exalt standard because it's become a popular currency, not because I know what the recipe will be.
As stated, the purpose of the discussion is to give GGG an idea as to what we think a reasonable measure of the earning potential of self-found play is, so that they can take that into consideration when constructing recipes which would not exclude solo/SF players. The 20 regret recipe is a case in point, though I don't mind that as much because there's a perfectly viable alternative to using it... replay. |
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If you are looking to craft an end game item as a self found player you need at least 30-50 exalts and eternals. So you need more than just exalted drops. The perfect crafting paradise for me would be 1ex/eternal per 2h of play. That sounds ridiculous though. I'd really rather have Uber bosses like in d2 expansion that drop crafting materials.
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I think GGG have perfect evidence. They have drop tables so they can estimate exact average currency drop rates per average selffound player (based on average kill speed)..
IGN: Eric_Lindros CET: Timezone Last edited by Ludvator on Dec 30, 2013, 10:47:25 AM
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Calculations
My total net-worth in Dominion was 4 chaos and 2 stacks of alts plus a couple of miscellaneous orbs, at the time I lent them to a friend. In addition, I had bought about 4 stacks of transmutes (1alc per stack), leveling weapons (3chaos + 2chaos), Sunblast (8chaos), Karui Ward (1chaos) and Deerstalker (1chaos). Total of about 23 chaos. Two characters, level 47 and level 30. Can't use /played because there's a lot of dead-time where I AFK for lunch or just chat, but you can draw your own conclusions from the character levels. Ratios are assumed to be 20 alts to a chaos, 20 chromatics to a chaos, and everything following from it. I sold no items but I did freely convert currency in trade chat.
This is including picking up every blue item so I can id and vendor it - the average return buying 160 ids to 1 chaos is that I end up with about double the amount of currency I bought the id scrolls with, when I run out. I make close to zero if I don't pick blues, simply because rares and orbs drop so rarely. With a Perandus ring and no significant MF, I don't need to buy id scrolls even when picking up blues. I can only do back-of-envelope calculations, but bear with me here. Clearing normal difficulty is about 3 hours on a fresh start (check the most recent 3 hour race). We'll say my level 30 cleared normal difficulty, since he pretty much did, so 3 hours there. I'll now take some numbers from someone else's thread: level 65 in 10 hours at the highest clearspeed with a leveling build and all best gear available. I have used said leveling build, as well as others, and I can reasonably say the normal difficulty clear time is 2 hours, give or take 0.5. On the level 47 character, for all intents and purposes I started using a leveling build at level 28 (Geofri's Baptism) and have cleared the entirety of cruel with it. More or less. That's 3 hours, plus we'll just say half the time between a1c and a2m, so 4 hours. Would have been longer if I'd leveled with my final build. So that comes out to about 3 chaos per hour, rounded up, playing solo self-found without MF gear and identifying every item. I'm not including the time taken going over vendors for chromatics, or going back to town to sell items, which are both fairly significant time sinks. It's likely to work out more around 2 chaos per playing hour. I can make the figures per hour mentioned above (80 alts, plus a few chaos from recipe, plus drops, adds up to about 8 chaos per hour) if I run a high-clearspeed MF build in endgame Piety/Dominus or maps. Goes through id scrolls at a fantastic rate too. So to answer the question in the OP, 2-8 chaos equivalent per hour at present rates. My buddy flipped high-demand uniques for a couple of hours and about doubled his currency. How to make a build: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/510084
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I paid 41.5 ex for a soultaker yesterday (domination.). 32.5 ex that I had and 9 ex that a good friend lent to me. I was able to farm the 32.5 ex by doing the longest most boring as fuck grinding sessions you can imagine. So, yeah, it is possible, but if that is the way that it is intended, then it is poor design. To get a little more detailed, I farmed roughly 150 chaos from the unidentified chaos recipe in ~8 hours yesterday.
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