Lots of not uninteresting off-topic discussion here but, again, the point of the thread is just to provide firm details and PoE-specific performance of a new system for people to evaulate according to their own preferences/budgets.
Other places to debate Mac/PC, ethics, human nature, etc.
@Elynole
I think worrying about others' taxes is a waste of time - there are so many companies and individuals alike with this against them that it would be difficult to actually survive if they are all diligently avoided. Something for the tax collectors to worry about. I have to pay taxes too but it makes no difference to me if it's more or less than someone I'm unassociated with and can't change.
Apple's patent and copyright suits are pretty few from what I can tell and generally against other large companies doing the same thing - a big game of posturing involving a broken copyright and patent system. Compared to Monster Cable, in my opinion, Apple's litigation department is saintly. I won't buy Monster Cables not because of their immoral litigation, though a good reason perhaps, but because there simply isn't good value in their cables/products.
Foxconn seems to produce electronics for numerous major companies, not just Apple. Not sure you can avoid any of "Foxconn-tainted" products without forsaking electronics completely. Although Apple and the other companies can, and should in my opinion, take a more ethical position and active role in their supply chain, where is the Chinese government and the citizens themselves on stopping this sort of treatment. Perhaps it's too good for their economy/families?
Again, not MacBook Pro.. Mac Pro. Their new cylindrical workstation tower. (I do have the MacBook Pro too, but that's another thread.) Same point though, and I agree with you.. dual booting Windows on it to play games is a bit annoying but that fact isn't enough to draw me back away from Apple products yet. I used to dual boot *nix and Windows all the time for the same reason.
But through all this, it's not "Being an Apple Product" that makes it good, in my opinion.. or that draws my attention. I could really care less who makes it. It's the devices on their own merits that I'm attracted to despite some of their major annoyances. I currently find more annoyances with other parts - too big, too cluttered, too flimsy, too prone to early death, etc.
I hear stories like you describe all the time at work and on transit. They go in both directions. Often with interchangeable rationale. Personal preferences and all that, right?
The 889MHz number in the 3DMark results is, I believe, due to memory division / CPU multiplier. It's actually DDR3 1866 - not the fastest, but not entirely sluggish. Compare to the current record holder who's memory shows as 800MHz - an x3 multiplier to match the mobo's DDR-2400 spec I presume.
As far as Apple computers supposedly being better for digital arts.. I've no idea either. It simply doesn't make sense - definitely not with them using the same hardware as PCs these days. Most likely it's just unfortunately self-perpetuating drivel similar to how they supposedly aren't good for gaming.
Probably surprise you that I'm not an Apple Fanboy despite the number of Apple products I seem to be accumulating lately and my taking their defense. Their devices are just winning out in my opinion over their competitors currently. Project Christine looks interesting, for example, but it's not available to consider at the moment. Main reasons I hate Microsoft tablets and Win 8 is the "everything at once" and hidden buttons concept (huge basic UI rule violations) and their combining desktop and tablet runtimes (tablets and phones are more similar in nature) - MS seems to be confused in their direction currently.
When I saw the name of the thread I knew it would be an insanely over-priced reproduction of the current "AppleDevice#2". But 10% lighter and 10% more better, with 10% less battery life.
I was not disappointed. Then I saw $6500. And THEN I realized it wasn't even a Laptop and my jaw dropped.
Apple is an absolute miracle of marketing. I'm sure they could sell an iPhone2 tomorrow and tell people it's a "Classic" and every iPhone5 owner would line up at 1am to get it.
They have a legion of followers, and facts don't matter to those followers.
It's like arguing religion when you try to point out what apple really is.
But it seems like you have the money to spend, so good for you. There are people that buy watches coated in Diamonds. I prefer my watch to be practical.
Different Strokes.
I like the frequent iteration on thier products, but personally I'd prefer to buy one when I need it at their current interation and then skip an iteration or two before upgrading. It's not Apple's fault if some people rush to buy each one. I'm sure there are many who do the same with Androids and Blackberries. Just human nature.
I live on a $30/h, 36h week wage. But I don't drive, drink (much), smoke, travel, have wife/kids, etc. I think it's foolish to buy a car if it can be avoided, be it $5k or $50k+, but I think most would be very fast to point out how crazy I am for that. My decisions grant me a bit more disposable income than most at my wage.
It's kind of funny how some people can be shocked at prices of some things and then spend that much or more without thought on other things that other people would be just as shocked at. Priorities, interests, personality, ..different strokes, indeed.
i dont really want to spend hours looking in to all the individual parts atm as im not making one but here is a link to something easily as powerful for very close to half the cost
Ok, say that's about a 25% increase in score on the Mac Pro.. pretty decent. Though only a 1.5 fps increase in the combined test. 10 and 5 fps in the graphics tests.
But here's some negatives in saving $3k.
25% SSD storage operating at ~50% r/w speed.
Large form factor.. heavy/unportable (lan party/carry-on luggage), desk space.
Multiple fans.. twice as loud or more?
Non-ECC memory. (In fairness not necessarily an issue for gaming.)
Double(?) the power consumption give or take. (Higher electric bills long-term, more heat/waste.)
Awkward warranty/support.
In my opinion, that's worth spending the $3k and why I mailed my previous self-built gaming rig to my little brother months ago and started playing on a laptop. Probably not in most peoples' opinion. But then, I like "wasting" money on Armani/Zegna clothing that definitely isn't worth half of what they sell for and is also crafted cheap overseas. /shrug
Maybe this would last four years but if you're playing the latest games on it would probably be itching for upgrades in two to three at best. That more powerful for less money is available was never in question; I think there are more aspects to consider as I mention above.
Anyway, a good comparison and option for someone more frugal/sensible than me.. I'm impressed. :)
Lots of not uninteresting off-topic discussion here but, again, the point of the thread is just to provide firm details and PoE-specific performance of a new system for people to evaulate according to their own preferences/budgets.
Other places to debate Mac/PC, ethics, human nature, etc.
@Elynole
I think worrying about others' taxes is a waste of time - there are so many companies and individuals alike with this against them that it would be difficult to actually survive if they are all diligently avoided. Something for the tax collectors to worry about. I have to pay taxes too but it makes no difference to me if it's more or less than someone I'm unassociated with and can't change.
Apple's patent and copyright suits are pretty few from what I can tell and generally against other large companies doing the same thing - a big game of posturing involving a broken copyright and patent system. Compared to Monster Cable, in my opinion, Apple's litigation department is saintly. I won't buy Monster Cables not because of their immoral litigation, though a good reason perhaps, but because there simply isn't good value in their cables/products.
Foxconn seems to produce electronics for numerous major companies, not just Apple. Not sure you can avoid any of "Foxconn-tainted" products without forsaking electronics completely. Although Apple and the other companies can, and should in my opinion, take a more ethical position and active role in their supply chain, where is the Chinese government and the citizens themselves on stopping this sort of treatment. Perhaps it's too good for their economy/families?
Again, not MacBook Pro.. Mac Pro. Their new cylindrical workstation tower. (I do have the MacBook Pro too, but that's another thread.) Same point though, and I agree with you.. dual booting Windows on it to play games is a bit annoying but that fact isn't enough to draw me back away from Apple products yet. I used to dual boot *nix and Windows all the time for the same reason.
But through all this, it's not "Being an Apple Product" that makes it good, in my opinion.. or that draws my attention. I could really care less who makes it. It's the devices on their own merits that I'm attracted to despite some of their major annoyances. I currently find more annoyances with other parts - too big, too cluttered, too flimsy, too prone to early death, etc.
I hear stories like you describe all the time at work and on transit. They go in both directions. Often with interchangeable rationale. Personal preferences and all that, right?
The 889MHz number in the 3DMark results is, I believe, due to memory division / CPU multiplier. It's actually DDR3 1866 - not the fastest, but not entirely sluggish. Compare to the current record holder who's memory shows as 800MHz - an x3 multiplier to match the mobo's DDR-2400 spec I presume.
As far as Apple computers supposedly being better for digital arts.. I've no idea either. It simply doesn't make sense - definitely not with them using the same hardware as PCs these days. Most likely it's just unfortunately self-perpetuating drivel similar to how they supposedly aren't good for gaming.
Probably surprise you that I'm not an Apple Fanboy despite the number of Apple products I seem to be accumulating lately and my taking their defense. Their devices are just winning out in my opinion over their competitors currently. Project Christine looks interesting, for example, but it's not available to consider at the moment. Main reasons I hate Microsoft tablets and Win 8 is the "everything at once" and hidden buttons concept (huge basic UI rule violations) and their combining desktop and tablet runtimes (tablets and phones are more similar in nature) - MS seems to be confused in their direction currently.
When I saw the name of the thread I knew it would be an insanely over-priced reproduction of the current "AppleDevice#2". But 10% lighter and 10% more better, with 10% less battery life.
I was not disappointed. Then I saw $6500. And THEN I realized it wasn't even a Laptop and my jaw dropped.
Apple is an absolute miracle of marketing. I'm sure they could sell an iPhone2 tomorrow and tell people it's a "Classic" and every iPhone5 owner would line up at 1am to get it.
They have a legion of followers, and facts don't matter to those followers.
It's like arguing religion when you try to point out what apple really is.
But it seems like you have the money to spend, so good for you. There are people that buy watches coated in Diamonds. I prefer my watch to be practical.
Different Strokes.
I like the frequent iteration on thier products, but personally I'd prefer to buy one when I need it at their current interation and then skip an iteration or two before upgrading. It's not Apple's fault if some people rush to buy each one. I'm sure there are many who do the same with Androids and Blackberries. Just human nature.
I live on a $30/h, 36h week wage. But I don't drive, drink (much), smoke, travel, have wife/kids, etc. I think it's foolish to buy a car if it can be avoided, be it $5k or $50k+, but I think most would be very fast to point out how crazy I am for that. My decisions grant me a bit more disposable income than most at my wage.
It's kind of funny how some people can be shocked at prices of some things and then spend that much or more without thought on other things that other people would be just as shocked at. Priorities, interests, personality, ..different strokes, indeed.
i dont really want to spend hours looking in to all the individual parts atm as im not making one but here is a link to something easily as powerful for very close to half the cost
Ok, say that's about a 25% increase in score on the Mac Pro.. pretty decent. Though only a 1.5 fps increase in the combined test. 10 and 5 fps in the graphics tests.
But here's some negatives in saving $3k.
25% SSD storage operating at ~50% r/w speed.
Large form factor.. heavy/unportable (lan party/carry-on luggage), desk space.
Multiple fans.. twice as loud or more?
Non-ECC memory. (In fairness not necessarily an issue for gaming.)
Double(?) the power consumption give or take. (Higher electric bills long-term, more heat/waste.)
Awkward warranty/support.
In my opinion, that's worth spending the $3k and why I mailed my previous self-built gaming rig to my little brother months ago and started playing on a laptop. Probably not in most peoples' opinion. But then, I like "wasting" money on Armani/Zegna clothing that definitely isn't worth half of what they sell for and is also crafted cheap overseas. /shrug
Maybe this would last four years but if you're playing the latest games on it would probably be itching for upgrades in two to three at best. That more powerful for less money is available was never in question; I think there are more aspects to consider as I mention above.
Anyway, a good comparison and option for someone more frugal/sensible than me.. I'm impressed. :)
Haha fair enough i CAN see where your coming from, im just never the type to buy pc stuff prepackaged i most always buy the parts myself.
there's always merit to having something as a whole package, warranty issues ect....
sry didn't mean to be a dick my eyes just popped when i saw the cost :p lol
