Set items in Path of Exile

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Mark_GGG wrote:

This game, at it's heart, is about items, and finding better ones. People play to find better gear to upgrade their character. Set Items work against that goal.
Take your example of three items that together grant CI - that's three item slots which together give you CI. You now can never find an item that will be an upgrade for any of those slots, because replacing any of those items would mean you loose CI, and you've established that CI is worth more than any one item can provide - thus, no potential replacement item will give you as much as you've lost. That's three item slots you will never upgrade, and given the limited number of slots on the character, that's a decent part of the game gone, because finding upgrades is the game to a large extent.

Hit the nail on head with this insight. Mark is ABSOLUTELY correct with his thoughts regarding the subject of set items.

Take the other game for example, there are a few 'key set items' I have that will never be replaced, and never did replace - except for the next probably set item and/or op loot in that games next expansion.

Once you 'max' out your character, you really start to think less of that character, get bored, and are looking for the next challenge. PoE has a good model here because it will take a long time to reach 100 on my lvl 80's in a realistic time frame and I will never have the absolutely best gear. There will always be room to improve my characters and that is core to ARPGs such as PoE and the others.

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Slinkston wrote:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

This game, at it's heart, is about items, and finding better ones. People play to find better gear to upgrade their character. Set Items work against that goal.
Take your example of three items that together grant CI - that's three item slots which together give you CI. You now can never find an item that will be an upgrade for any of those slots, because replacing any of those items would mean you loose CI, and you've established that CI is worth more than any one item can provide - thus, no potential replacement item will give you as much as you've lost. That's three item slots you will never upgrade, and given the limited number of slots on the character, that's a decent part of the game gone, because finding upgrades is the game to a large extent.

Hit the nail on head with this insight. Mark is ABSOLUTELY correct with his thoughts regarding the subject of set items.

I was thinking about this a bit more today, and it strikes me as weird that there already are uniques in game which limit the number of slots you can upgrade. For example, using Bringer of Rain means you already have your BiS (best in slot) for your chest armour too. Same goes for Thief's torment - get one ring, and you never have to upgrade the second one.

Also, the new unique twin-axes is basically the same thing. You automatically get your BiS off-hand weapon when you equip your main-hand weapon.

Basically, these are uniques that are too powerful for one item, so they need to use more than one gear slot. It's just like the OP wanted, really.

So, if GGG want to shy away from set items for the reasons Mark said, they should be really careful how many effective 'set uniques' they release, otherwise they'll keep artificially limiting item choice for those builds.

Interesting read.

Couldn't their be set bonuses that append randomly to random unique and/or rare items?
-via drop, orb of chance, quest ... you know the stuff you repeat all the time...

So there will always be that urge to find the perfect item type and stat roll with the randomly rolled set bonus?

Rare Silk Gloves that roll random sets bonuses Example below


Piety's Set Blight Grip Silk Gloves


Another set bonus roll but on another rare item with different stats!! example below

Piety's Set Horror Fingers Silk Gloves



Those two examples might seem OP. Just simply add a negative. But the diversity is always there and people will always be looking for more SET like items for more builds or end tier rares/uniques with perfect rolls and also the added set bonus to it.

My 2 cents worth.

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Basically, these are uniques that are too powerful for one item, so they need to use more than one gear slot. It's just like the OP wanted, really.

This is a critical, astute observation.

You can achieve the same idea of a set item, creating a unique bonus that has an opportunity cost of more than six affixes, by restricting gear slots.

You gain some stuff with this approach:

Novelty. I don't really recall seeing an item that works like Bringer of Rain. It's pretty cool. The new axe is even more cool. I've just never really seen items like that. That's fun.

Tradeoffs with gem sockets and links. The number of items required and the type of items you use to provide a bonus in PoE directly impact the kind of link setups you can create. With the new 2 handed axe, you can have a dual wielding six link setup with Kaom's or Bringer. Can't do that with two 1 handers.

However, you lose some stuff:

Clarity. What the hell does that new axe do exactly? How many times does a player have to read the description to really understand what is happening? Compare that with having a set of of two axes that provide 25% block chance to spells as a set bonus.

Completionist. I don't get to collect the set.

I really like the approach with restricting gear slots. There are lots of specific cases in which the flavour, mechanics, and the specific bonuses combine to provide a kickass item (like Bringer of Rain).

There are lots of cases where it is simply more complicated than having an item set. Seems reasonable to include both design layers.

Another thing that was really interesting to me was the tidbit where Chris mentioned Wings of Entropy was the most complicated new item they have created. Was it worth the effort? (I would say yes, based on the benefits of novelty, but it's worth noting that it might not be)

P.S. To be clear, I think it is more likely that Wings of Entropy was created because someone wanted to have a six-link, dual-wield setup with Bringer of Rain rather than as a way of allowing multiple OP affixes on one item. However, dudiobugtron's point is still relevant.

Why not providing set items that can still be crafted ?

I'm thinking, for exemple, that set items are special blue items :
- every magic/blue items droped has a chance to be a set item. Set is determined in a pool of available Set. Restriction can be added on what type of item should drop for a set (like es armor / es glove for exemple).
- the two affixes from the blue item can always be crafted (with alt, because they are considered "magic" for the purpose of crafting)
- up to two affixes are set specific and are available even without other items of the set.
- up to two affixes are set specific and comes when you equip more of them.
- up to two bonus is globally given for having partial set / complete set.
- item level requirement and/or stat can be superior than base item.
- maybe add receipe to transfer the "set" property to another "magic"

Meaning that you could almost always find a better set item and it would always have a tradeof in term of requirement. Until you find the highest type of item and roll the perfect mods with alteration. Then you must have all other pieces of set like that as well. And like uniques they should offer special stats so that they can be an alternate choice for good rares.
[Apply all other good observation from all the conversations on balance here]

Other proposition, they can be based on rare item with only two specifics affixes and currency that works on rare, works on them (still can't have more than 4 random affixes).

So just as a minor side idea, if upgrade-ability is the primary argument against sets why not add some sets just foe ilvl 100 sets. Your not really looking for an upgrade at that point so it could create some new fun super late end game builds.

While I don't think 4-6 pieces being attached to a set would really work well in PoE, I do think having a few 2-piece sets could work. I can see 2 rings, 2 weapons, a weapon and shield, a bow and quiver, etc working out in a similar fashion to things like Facebreakers, where they are specific to just a small number of builds.

I would like Item Sets that take on the Sir-Name of Main in game Characters.

Something like " Lord Nissa Alligator Boots, Crystal Wand, Fire Amulet, Silver Laced Gloves ", I'd like to see that even if there is no set pairing bonuses. That way the Items ART can be consequently created for looks as well as Having basic sets for different Build Styles.

Path of Exiles is seriously lacking Quality ART for its Armour & weapon, who doesn't want to kill monster with a little style.

Set items are a trash concept and don't belong in this game nor do they really belong in any game. Making items dependent on each other to be worthwhile to use does nothing but hurt a players ability to upgrade their gear outside of it. People need to stop focusing on words to describe gear and worry more about the power of gear in general. If you come up with a gap that a piece of gear would fill then its one thing but to say "Oh my god we need green items with OP stats so we can be cool cause we love blizzard"