Iron Will vs Iron Grip

"

Torin wrote:

Even if Iron Will keystone was added it would not change the fact both these support are stupid and way underpowered. They at best save you couple of passive points (not 1 as OP stated as you need to get to Iron Grip area), but we all know linked slots in equipment are worth more then couple of points.

At least with Point Blank support you get a chance to link it to one skill and only that skills is better at close range but worse at long and you can use other skills at long. These two have zero tactical options, you either have the bonus or you don't.

To compete with Keystone (or future Keystones) these supports should start with 0 penalty and start giving bonuses when they level.

IMHO the PB support is for people who could simply not get even near the keystone - i use it with my Lighning strike templar and the support is great for him -> of course the keystone gives less disadvantages, but it is simply not reachable for me (it would take me 15 passive points to get there!)

I personally quite like the Iron Will Support gem.
Casting speed isn't a straight advantage, it raises your mana consumption.
And the more casting speed you have, the less difference makes the penalty.
If you do a BM caster, having 300 Strength turn into +60% spell damage in addition to the life it already gives is by no means bad, and if the gem has quality, it allows another ~13% spelldamage at absolutely no cost, which in my book is significant if you are low on mana or use life in the first place.
Also, those builds are closer to the fire passives, and burn damage kind of invalidates cast speed as a factor, or vice versa.

I would not be opposed to an Iron Will keystone, or a slight buff to the supports, but I don't quite find it as useless as you make it out to be.

Iron Will on Tempest Shield is free damage, and it's nearly free damage on Molten Shell (since the cast animation is much less than the time it takes to actually pop). And I second Cyborg's sentiments about burn spec/fire damage with a strength caster, it's very strong. Iron Will is in a good place.

"

pneuma wrote:

Iron Will on Tempest Shield is free damage, and it's nearly free damage on Molten Shell (since the cast animation is much less than the time it takes to actually pop). And I second Cyborg's sentiments about burn spec/fire damage with a strength caster, it's very strong. Iron Will is in a good place.

This!

Friend plays exactly that way and the support is very powerful there.
It is just that it does not fit in many builds ppl play atm - but i would not be surprised if more show up later that utilize the gem in that way.

A keystone would be nice - but if i look at what damage a tempest shield / molten shell / discharge / full fire + burn duration build can do with 1 link blocked by the support - it could also lead to too OP builds later on if it can be reached easy on the skilltree.

Imho the supports should be slightly better than the keystones (if the 2nd would be added) as they take away one of the max 5/6 links ppl have.
I would not buff the supports too much (maybe take away parts of their penalty) but slightly tune down the keystone in bonus added per 100str compared to them.