What is hardcore?

Since POE intends to be a game focusing on hardcore gameplay, what do you think best defines that?

A game which:
- has a steap learning curve
- is hard to master
- punishes you if you make a mistake
- requires a lot of research
- has a huge amount of directions and variations in the game
- has a competitive environment (ability to compete in one way or another)
- is very time consuming by design
- has meaningful decision that have great impact on your gameplay
- Something else?

Apparently a game is "HARDCORE" now a days when it has meaningful and impactful decisions.

On topic:

Something else, as in you play Path of Exile and Path of Exile doesnt play you, thats "hardcore" for me.

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devmoon wrote:

Something else, as in you play Path of Exile and Path of Exile doesnt play you, thats "hardcore" for me.

What makes you feel that "you are playing Path of Exile,a nd it doesnt play you"?
Isnt it one or more of the things listed above?

A hardcore game is a game that rewards a player for investing time and effort into developing a better understanding for and mastering its systems. That doesn't necessarily mean that the game is hard or has a steep learning curve (though in most cases those games would be considered hardcore). Similarly, that doesn't mean that you can only play the game successfully if you invest the time up front to master it. There are tons of great games that are easy to learn but difficult to master that I would term as hardcore. Again, the key is that the more time you spend learning and mastering the game, the more you're rewarded by the game.

In light of GGG defining PoE as 'The hardcore ARPG you've been waiting for', I would also think that 'hardcore' here means it somehow satisfies the veterans of the genre with its authentic, faithful reproduction of whatever we consider an 'ARPG' to be. Is PoE a hardcore game in and of itself? I can't easily answer that. I've seen newbies to ARPGs pick it up effortlessly and I've seen people I knew from D1 struggle with it.

I can say that it is a hardcore ARPG in that it feels like what I consider to be an ARPG distilled, refined and concentrated into one coherent, tight product.

- punishes you if you make a mistake
Punished for mistakes doesnt fit in path of exile really because anything can be viable with different amounts of effort and gear, but without permanent choices, decisions becomes meaningless

- requires a lot of research
Create something that works good will make you proud and will require some hard work. Without doing any effort you dont feel rewarded.

- has a huge amount of directions and variations in the game
As long as the directions and variations have meaning in some way or another.



This is some of my opinions of a hardcore game with path of exile as an example.

This is what Wikipedia says about it:

Hardcore gamer
Hardcore gamers prefer to take significant time and practice on games, and tend to play more involved games that require larger amounts of time to complete or master. Hardcore gamers may take part in video game culture such as competitions, events and conventions. Competitions are another defining characteristic of hardcore gamers, who often compete in organized tournaments, leagues, or ranked play integrated into the game proper, an example of this is Major League Gaming, an Electronic sports organization that often holds events for hardcore First-person shooter games such as Quake. There are many subtypes of hardcore gamers based on the style of game, gameplay preference, hardware platform, and other preferences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamer

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Charan wrote:

Is PoE a hardcore game in and of itself? I can't easily answer that. I've seen newbies to ARPGs pick it up effortlessly and I've seen people I knew from D1 struggle with it.

Doesnt that imply that you feel "being a difficult" game is necessary for being a hardcore game?

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devmoon wrote:

- punishes you if you make a mistake
Punished for mistakes doesnt fit in path of exile really because anything can be viable with different amounts of effort and gear, but without permanent choices, decisions becomes meaningless

I am glad you mention this, because this is one of my main concerns with the game in its current state. It has to do with builds and the options you have for changing direction in the game. GGG has stated that they want people to start new characters and not be able to easily change your spec and gamestyle.

Having to start characters over (and thereby replay already tried content) will be seen as the game punishing you by many players once the game goes public.

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devmoon wrote:

- requires a lot of research
Create something that works good will make you proud and will require some hard work. Without doing any effort you dont feel rewarded.

Following the point above, the game requires a very high amount of research done in order to not make "mistakes". Skill descriptions will never be concise enough to prevent mistakes, meaning that players HAVE to research builds on forums etc before starting, or risk making mistakes with their character.