Few questions regarding the new trap/mine clusters

- if I use a mine that lays a trap, do I benefit from both mine and trap increased damage modifiers? If not, which one takes effect? Does the skill receive elemental resistance penetration from High Explosives twice, for 20%?

- if I summon a minion with a mine/trap, does it receive elemental resistance penetration from High Explosives? If I summon a minion with a mine that lays a trap, does it receive elemental resistance penetration from High Explosives twice, for 20%?

thanks

Hmm, nice questions.

Yes, both mine and trap damage multipliers count.

I don't think you get it twice, there are certain bonuses in the game that double-dip but those are indirect (for example resist penalty and ignite). Just like your elemental damage nodes count only once for a specific damage chunk even if your damage is converted so it's both cold and fire at the same time.

Your minions get everything that's written on gem combo used to summon them. For example if you use a totem to summon a minion it will have 'does 50% less damage' and '30% reduced cast speed' (if it can cast spells).
However they don't get bonuses that apply to you, if you wear a hoop of all that says 'does 10% increased damage' your totem won't summon a minion that does more damage even if your totem normally does more damage. Or having increased cast speed, you will summon a totem faster, it will summon a minion faster but that minion won't cast spells faster (but he will if you socket cast speed gem in that combo).

"

raics wrote:

[...]
Your minions get everything that's written on gem combo used to summon them. For example if you use a totem to summon a minion it will have 'does 50% less damage' and '30% reduced cast speed' (if it can cast spells).
However they don't get bonuses that apply to you, if you wear a hoop of all that says 'does 10% increased damage' your totem won't summon a minion that does more damage even if your totem normally does more damage.
[...]

Minions DO get SOME bonuses that affect you, such a Increased Minion Damage. It's YOUR Increased Minion Damage, but it affects your minions. So the question is, if your Minion was created through a Mine/Trap, would your Minion's damage benefit from YOUR Increased Mine/Trap Damage?

Also potentially relevant is how the Mine/Trap damage increases are worded, such as:

"
+6% increased mine damage
+6% increased trap damage
"

this could potentially be entirely distinct from how passives such as "8% increased elemental damage" or "+8% to armor and evasion" work, because those are all listed as granting a single instance of increased damage, which is fundamentally unable to apply to the same [base] damage twice.
We currently do not know whether
"
8% increased armor
8% increased evasion
"
is different in the eyes or the game.

Yes, you can look at it as you having the property 'this creature's minions have 30% increased damage', so when the minion spawns it will have '30% incresed damage' property. Similarly to that, if you link minion life support to a spectre it won't get 'minions have 30% increased maximum Life' but 'has 30% increased maximum life', so if your spectre raises a minion it will have normal life.

So, ultimately, it depends on how it was implemented. If your totems get '30% increased damage' on spawn, it will work. But if you have a property 'your skills do 30% increased damage when channeled through a totem', it won't.

Why was this never addressed? Im ganna re-post this somewhere it will be seen..

I don't know, but I think it should "double dip" because to make a mine-trap you're already paying a huge mana cost and support cost in terms of sockets consumed to make a mine-trap. Might as well have both effects apply.

As for minions, I don't think it will effect minions but I'm not really sure if it should or not.

Increased damage% and penetration can only be applied once - on a hit. A mine that summons a trap does not hit the monster. The trap does. Ergo, High Explosives penetrates only once.

"

but I think it should "double dip" because to make a mine-trap you're already paying a huge mana cost and support cost in terms of sockets consumed to make a mine-trap. Might as well have both effects apply.

Trap support gives 34% more damage. Remote Mine, 49%. Together they double the damage of the skill in question.*

I think this damage effectiveness stat does apply to Minion Damage, and know that it works with stuff like Added Cold Damage and DoT's like poison arrow.



* Which isn't all that much power for the hoops you have to jump through to use them. Hence why you only really hear about people using Remote Mine with Zombies. Myself I'm more interested in having Ice Nova Grenades and the like..

Looking at the numbers on my Poison Arrow trapmine, it appears you do benefit from both "increased trap damage" and "increased mine damage". In other words, if you pick up a passive that gives "9% increased trap damage; 9% increased mine damage" and then use a trapmine, it's exactly as if you'd picked up an "18% increased damage" passive as far as that skill is concerned.

I'm not sure about High Explosives - double-dipping is certainly plausible, because the damage dealt by a trapmine is both 'trap damage' and 'mine damage'. I think it would also apply to minions and totems summoned via traps/mines. It would be nice to hear some info from the devs on this.

was about to make a new thread but found this post instead.

curious about this double dip functionality of trap/mine as well.

Searched for this before. You do get both passive effects.
+20% Increased Mine Damage
+20% Increased Trap Damage

If you had Remote Mine and Trap on Fireball, this would be 40% Increased Damage plus the 49% and 34% More multipliers from the support gems.

For high explosives (Traps Penetrate 10% elemental resistance, Mines Penetrate 10% Elemental Resistance), the penetration is only 10% as the Remote Mine never "hits" it just lays the Trap so only the Trap's 10% is applied.

For minions, the Trap and Mine Passives do not apply to increase Minion Damage. However, the Support Gems' MORE multiplier will affect the minion. Although that makes Sunblast required for summoning spectres as you have to have the Trap go off somehow.

:)