Mind over Matter

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FearTHeFrO wrote:

This passive always seems so good in theory, then when I actually use it its just pointless. I did an EB/artic armor/high mana regen build (like 300% mana regen or so). and the big problem with the skill is when you do eventually get hit down to 1% mana, its very hard to get it back up even with insane mana regen. If 10 rhoas charge you over and over again and you're stuck at 1% mana the whole time not being able to cast it can be really annoying. So yea maybe I just don't know how to build around this passive but to me its good in theory but to actually make it work successfully you need to invest sooo much mana regen and if you're doing that you might as well just run arctic armour which is a better investment overall than this passive. And to run both I think its near impossible.

But yea just my opinion, maybe other people have found ways to make it work but I can't.

Edit- and I'm talking in end game 70+ maps, obviously if you're just farming random stuff and barely getting hit for anything then this wont make a difference, but when the mobs are hitting you for a ton in maps it can be very problematic once you do drop below a certain mana threshold.

^
I use MoM (well, Cloak of Defiance) and it really helps a ton, but in cases like the quote I can see why it's not very appealing. MoM is clearly for ranged characters to give them something like a "second chance" when they get hit, yet it's in the Duelist area :/ . Mana based keystones should honestly be in the intelligence area of the tree too.

The good thing about the keystone though is that it's near Iron Reflexes, and everyone gets a raging hard-on over that keystone.

First of all : There's two items that mitigate how much mana you lose from this passive, Ondar's Flight (Up to 10% of damage gained as mana when hit)

And Mindspiral, which doesn't let you mana leech, but has a similar affect and gives you a large amount of flat mana.

Secondly, I think trying to mana regen your way completely out of this isnt necessarily going to work, plus you need a equilibrium set up.

If you have Ondar's Flight, you'l be losing 20% of the 100% of your damage taken in mana, So if your hp is 4000, that is 800. This means you really want to have at least, say 600 mana (Preferably 800+) Not reserved. If you are depending on regen, you need significantly more then enough for you to cast your spells/skills and such. If you are depending on leech, then you want a comparable amount of mana leech to your life leech. (With the boots, 2% mana leech for every 10% life leech)


Keep in mind, MoM doesnt affect any kind of degeneration or DoT affect, both it, and the items that help mitigate it explicitly say "When hit".

You can have EB and a few thousand mana, but if you reserve it all, you will get what 'FearTHeFrO' explained happening to you. You need both a way to regenerate your mana, and a large standing mana pool.

PS : Regular MoM is a affective 1.428x multiplier to your total effective health against anyhing it affects, Cloak of defiance is a 1.666x multiplier.

Edit : Or you could just blood magic everything you own, so that ending up at 1% mana isnt that big of a deal. That comes with its own downfalls though.

Double Edit : Hybrid Flasks! I cant believe i didnt mention those. They're really fricking good for MoM.

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Y156112 wrote:

Why put points into mana nodes to make Mind over Matter work when you can put those points into life nodes and achieve better results (less point investment)? I see how this could've been cool for evasion chars and casters due to one shots but right now this passive is useless. New %based aura reservation, in this case, mekes thing even worse btw.

Because you get HIGHER returns per point spent in the mana than you do in the life.

If you have 100% life, take MoM, and put 50% into mana (mana takes fewer points than life to get to 50%) you effectively have 186% life.

MoM is an alertnative mechanic to using an aura, or if you want to go whole hog (use EB/match %life to %mana and invest) it can be used as more defenses while retaining at least one aura use.

The belief that you'd get more out of less investment just putting points in life is very erroneous.

I wouldn't use this keystone willy nilly, but honestly, it is amazing for full evasion characters. In fact, I'd say it was really made with them in mind. It's your armor. And, since you don't get hit all that often, you have more time to recover your resources. If you leech well or have BM setup on your main attack, it's not an issue at all.

And I know spell damage hurts and will start to take it's toll, but with phase acro (and possibly some spell block, depending on build) it can continue to be very strong even with minimal "mana" passives.

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FearTHeFrO wrote:

This passive always seems so good in theory, then when I actually use it its just pointless. I did an EB/artic armor/high mana regen build (like 300% mana regen or so). and the big problem with the skill is when you do eventually get hit down to 1% mana, its very hard to get it back up even with insane mana regen. If 10 rhoas charge you over and over again and you're stuck at 1% mana the whole time not being able to cast it can be really annoying. So yea maybe I just don't know how to build around this passive but to me its good in theory but to actually make it work successfully you need to invest sooo much mana regen and if you're doing that you might as well just run arctic armour which is a better investment overall than this passive. And to run both I think its near impossible.

But yea just my opinion, maybe other people have found ways to make it work but I can't.

Edit- and I'm talking in end game 70+ maps, obviously if you're just farming random stuff and barely getting hit for anything then this wont make a difference, but when the mobs are hitting you for a ton in maps it can be very problematic once you do drop below a certain mana threshold.

How much total mana do you have? I ended up running mind over matter with EB and arctic armour and I haven't had that problem in maps so far. But I have only done up to lvl 70s.does the mana problem come into play after that? For reference my scion has 1100 and something mana left over after clarity, hatred, and purity and around 350% regen.