Why desync is fixable:

Well, this post comes out of a fresh frustrating desync dead (i died in a room that wasn't even on my screen before i died), but i don't want to add another flaming thread ( in fact i was thinking about this post long ago) and i will try to be constructive and tell you why desync is destroying the game and how you can fix it.

Why desync is a huge problem:
At first you think about unnecessary deaths, but the problem is a lot deeper than that (even thought i lost 80-90% of my hc characters that died to desync >.<). Why is that? Because PoE is a skillheavy game and this skill comes from planing (character builds etc), judgement (know what to do against what enemy in whatever situation) and movement (position yourself to deal the most of damage with multiple projectiles, aoe, etc ; defensive measures, like running away, position yourself in a save position, etc).

I think it is pretty obvious that movement and positioning is a big part of "skill" in this game (in some situations it got the same priority like in AoS/MOBA games, especially in races were killing speed and survival is everything) and here is also the biggest problem with desync.
The biggest issue is that you frustrate and discourage nearly everyone with this problem, because it influences so much of this game.

Just an random example post of someone in this forum:

"

It is a big issue in Maze, Crematorium, Necropolis and Cells.

Desynching in those area is one of the most common things. Especially in Maze I constantly see myself suddenly standing in a room I never stepped foot into and hear from other people about the exact same thing happening to them.

Its one of the main reason why most of us run IR Grace Determination on any character, even any ES character because the games netcode (or whatever it is that causes these issues) makes it impossible for you do to do something about it in some situation, no matter whether or not you use an /oos macro. Sometimes you simply get teleported into a bunch of Whippers.

Onslaught, in comparison to Hardcore, made the situation even worse. Invisible Lightning Storms at Piety (Temple and Shrine), invisible Vaal smashes and other long ranged attacks that end up without any animation are a common issue. I dont know if its because of the turbo, but it would be the most logical thing because its the only difference between both leagues.

The fun fact here is that you know a solution to all this problems:

"

Wait until data arrives back from the server before doing anything. This is a very common strategy in RTS and MOBA games. If you click to move, the unit will only start moving once the server says so, which is 50-250ms later. If you are close to the server, you'll quickly get used to the lag and everything feels pretty good. If you're far away (New Zealand, for example), it feels like you're playing drunk. Every time you issue an order, nothing happens for quarter of a second. This does not work for Action RPGs.

And here comes the problem. You eliminate the best option to fix the problem by default with an garbage argument and here is why:
If you play a AoS/MOBA you can easy play on US servers from Europe or otherwise. Even the 300ms, you probably get, aren't worse than the whole pre-calculation thing, because they are STABLE and you get used to it. Especially for a game like PoE (hardcore player focused) stability is fucking everything. Even players in bad connection areas will get used to high pings and it will be way better than this uncertain "Am i where i think i'm or i'm already dead?" thing.
Yes, i'm a in europe so i probably have a ping around 25-50ms to servers around here, but i experienced higher pings playing on other continent servers and it may feel bad at first, but you always get used to it.

The main thing you need for a flowing game experience is stability! You can get used to play on high pings like another contintal server, but with your way the player is extradited to the whole desync problem. Plus you get the option to ease things for players in bad connection areas when you get more money pretty easy with new servers in new areas.

I really hope GGG is reading this an rethink the whole problem, because the way the game is now and the hardcore approach (which i really like) will probably never work in this game.

I hate playing on high pings. Would rather desync on occasion.

@OP: So instead of being sometimes desynced, you want to be constantly desynced? How can you avoid anything if you're always half a second behind what's actually happening?

"

SL4Y3R wrote:

I hate playing on high pings. Would rather desync on occasion.

Who said that you have to play on high ping? Do you really think that games like DotA or LoL or HoN (or other similar games) don't need instant feedback? If you think so you never played some of this games. It is possible to play a game with nearly no delay and it would be even better the more server they get out.

"

dudiobugtron wrote:

@OP: So instead of being sometimes desynced, you want to be constantly desynced? How can you avoid anything if you're always half a second behind what's actually happening?

You ever played one of the AoS/MOBA games?
With good servers you won't even realize that you are behind. It can be hard in areas with bad connections, but that can build up later. I think the game would get more players (and more money with it) so it would be possible to build up additional servers.

To you guys, try to play some games of these games and tell me that they are not responsive.

Btw, a second behind means you have a ping of over 1000ms. Just saying.

"

DE3me wrote:

"

SL4Y3R wrote:

I hate playing on high pings. Would rather desync on occasion.

Who said that you have to play on high ping? Do you really think that games like DotA or LoL or HoN (or other similar games) don't need instant feedback? If you think so you never played some of this games. It is possible to play a game with nearly no delay and it would be even better the more server they get out.

I played tournaments in some MOBAs in the past, at the top level for the gametype, indeed coming first with my team occasionally.

Now these tournaments were in the US, while I live in NZ. This meant I had a minimum ping of 200

Trust me, it matters. No matter what, controls felt slightly sluggish, you can feel it easily by playing a local game of classic WC3Dota, and then joining someone elses server hosted game.

So while skill can make up for the deficit, and my main skill was in reading the map and situations to judge the best outcome, there was plenty of times I would use skillshots in the wrong direction cause the game was delayed, or miss entirely, or end up in a bad situation unable to use a heal/escape I needed to.

Classic 'skill' based components, for example dodging a projectile (often a stun) by using something that makes you briefly invulnerable/disjoints you (example that scorpion guys burrow stun skill from Dota classic), that was something I could never do reliably. Why? Because I had half a second less time to react to something that takes less than a second. If we say it takes 800ms to reach you (slow projectile), then I see it when its at 600ms, I click at 200ms, and I get stunned because I am too slow (0.4s reaction time assumed for this).




Case and point of why 'desync' is not a bad thing, I find PoE to be super smooth and un delayed/laggy, thanks to desync and predictions, but D3 I found to be very laggy, delayed, and you do things and it reacts a fair bit later. Makes playing a wizard using that crit-reduce-cd and freeze skill almost impossible, because I spam the skill but sometimes it doesn't cast in time.

Slaving the client to the server doesn't "fix" desync. It just makes it impossible to tell what is going to happen based on enemy telegraphy.

Because what you want to be doing when playing an aRPG that makes frequent use of one-shot mechanics is not be able to react to the server's decision to kill you.

Edit: D3 actually doesn't slave client to server. Last I played in D3 it was actually quite fluid, with instances of sever desync/lag when a lot was happening and my internet didn't like it.

Your entire OP was about it being acceptable to play with a high ping. That you get used it. Well, I would rather play something else, personally.

Further, comparing the way this game vs MOBAs function is entirely different. So comparisons cant be readily made.

And if desync is detected, dont those games stop the entire game from continuing?

People are all dismissing this thread way too quickly assuming that you would have a high ping?

Why would you have a high ping in the first place? That is not due to the player but do too lacking server availability.

So should PoE invest in servers and indeed implement it like the OP suggested in order to solve desync?

I agree with OP that stable offset behavior is superior to a chaotic experience where offset changes but is "lower on average"

however, moba netcode is a lot simpler i think. there's not as much of an issue trusting the client, so synchronization is better.

"

Real_Wolf wrote:

I played tournaments in some MOBAs in the past, at the top level for the gametype, indeed coming first with my team occasionally.

Now these tournaments were in the US, while I live in NZ. This meant I had a minimum ping of 200

Trust me, it matters. No matter what, controls felt slightly sluggish, you can feel it easily by playing a local game of classic WC3Dota, and then joining someone elses server hosted game.

So while skill can make up for the deficit, and my main skill was in reading the map and situations to judge the best outcome, there was plenty of times I would use skillshots in the wrong direction cause the game was delayed, or miss entirely, or end up in a bad situation unable to use a heal/escape I needed to.

Classic 'skill' based components, for example dodging a projectile (often a stun) by using something that makes you briefly invulnerable/disjoints you (example that scorpion guys burrow stun skill from Dota classic), that was something I could never do reliably. Why? Because I had half a second less time to react to something that takes less than a second. If we say it takes 800ms to reach you (slow projectile), then I see it when its at 600ms, I click at 200ms, and I get stunned because I am too slow (0.4s reaction time assumed for this).




Case and point of why 'desync' is not a bad thing, I find PoE to be super smooth and un delayed/laggy, thanks to desync and predictions, but D3 I found to be very laggy, delayed, and you do things and it reacts a fair bit later. Makes playing a wizard using that crit-reduce-cd and freeze skill almost impossible, because I spam the skill but sometimes it doesn't cast in time.

I never said that it would be great to play on delay, but in a game like PoE you probably won't have a 200 ping, because you connect to your nearest server. That means that we are talking probably (unless you live somewhere without any servers even near, like africa or the arabic area) about a ping below 100ms. For people with better connections probably even less (like 20ms). What i said about higher pings was that you can learn to deal with it (you probably know this) and hope that GGG will place a server in your area so you can experience a lower ping as well.

You all seem to forget that we have the desync problem at the moment and not a flawless conection like you make it sound and i said that it should be considered as an option to use the AoS/MOBA mechanic. Overall i think it would be way better with a stable (as small as possible) delay as this desync, where you die in a room you didn't even see on your screen before you died or you run and position yourself just to realize you aren't were you should be.