Map drop rate in regards to ingame rates and IIQ on maps

So, here are a couple of things that slowly everyone is beginning to figure out.

1) While in the HC race, many are finding a LARGE # of chisels, but never any maps. While making my way to Vaal in merciless, I managed to find 6 chisels. This is with running Fellshrine about 10+ times. Not one map ever dropped. There are players who have found 12+ chisels, without a map ever dropping. This is obviously not the way it should be.

2)In default league, I managed to have a nice supply of lvl65 maps, with a handful of 66+ at any given time before the "patch". This is all with only 80IIQ. Now, I have 0 65+ and only 4 64s left. But, I have a TON of chisels.

3) Many players are noticing that a player is MUCH better off to have +area/maze or +magic mods on their maps. Why? Because normal white monsters usually drop 0 items, but sometimes will drop one. Having an increase of 100%IIQ on a map really doesn't change anything for those monsters. Magic monsters on the other hand can drop 1-2 items usually. A 50% increase in this actually makes a difference. Further, as always, by extending map size, this means more monsters= better odds. Nothing has really changed. More difficult mods =/= more maps in the long run.

Solutions:

1) White lvl60 maps should be available from the vendor for 1 alch each. This is cheap enough as to allow low level players easy access to the end game system. but also expensive enough to prevent people buying tons in order to use the vendor recipe in order to gain +1 levels.

2) Ditch the +area mods for maps. All maps should be of decent size. I can run thru a lvl68 Cells Map in about 5-7 minutes. Less if I don't pick up loot. Too short. Same applies for many other maps. I've gotten into the habit of carrying 3+ maps on me ready to use, because I can do about 6-7/hour.

3) Increase overall map drop rates futher. And I mean by A LOT. There should be no reason that I should be worried about running out. Honestly, I REFUSE to have my lvl81 toon run pyramids or fellshrine in order to get more. That's idiotic.

4) Chisels should be a BONUS for maps. Not something that should be mandatory. Before the patch, the common knowledge was to use them on 65+ until you get a steady stash of 65s, than start using them on 66s. Now, I've got so many chisels since I have no maps to use them on. The additional 20% gained, pales in comparison to the actual odds of dropping a map anyways. Many people have tons of chisels now. They were too rare before, but I think you may have gone overboard. In your dev post, you stated people are not using chisels enough. This sounds like a broken mechanic if people should be relying on chisels, instead of the chisels just being "icing on the cake".

5) Certain mods should yield a much larger IIQ when combined on the same map. For instance, temp chains + +movement speed +attack speed + cast speed should yield more than just 1+1=2. Another example is a -20% resist map + monsters do x% more element damage. These, when combined should yield more, since they're working together.

6) I think that there should be certain cutoff levels for map IIQ, and the level of map that could possibly drop. For instance, if a maps IIQ was 80%, than it should have a floor of -2. 90%=-1, 100%+=0 This way, players will actually feel rewarded at least KNOWING they're increasing their chances for higher lvl maps, instead of just the possibility for a map to drop in the first place. This would also help curtail the excessive amount of chisels that are in the game now. It would also act as the bonus as previously described.

Make hard mods worth running. Currently this is not the case. And for anyone who says map drops are fine, I leave you with this. Before the patch, you could buy a lvl64 for about a GCP, and a lvl 65 for about 5 Chaos. Now, NO ONE is selling lvl 65s, and the few that sell lvl64s, are able to get a Divine for them. I've sold quite a few for that price. I no longer give out free maps for trivia questions either. The supply of maps is diminishing. It is not worth it to spend 3-4 GCP rolling mods, especially if you don't know they'll help on low lvl maps.

TLDR: Read the damn thing

I think I have a more elegant solution to map rates.

First the problem stated in mathematical terms:

The RoR (Risk of Ruin ie the chance of running out or maps) of maps is too high, in the opinion of many players. Im not having this issue yet: I currently have 10 maps, its been as high as 16, but ive traded a few maps to the vendor for higher levels.

Increasing map drop rates does not necessarily do much to fix the Risk of Ruin.

Ok, so how about if there was a chance of a Map including a link back to a zone on the campaign map?

so the Reef Map might link back to the Tidal Island or Twilight Strand.

Once opened the link is permanent: thus the player will always have access to the Reef Map.

On entry the Map gets an Orb of Chance type treatment. To balance this a new instance wont be player activatable; the map will have to expire in the usual timeframe. (no 'new' button on the ctrl-click screen, but a timer to say when its going to reset) And, of course it cant be chiseled.

Perhaps the new button could be used if the boss is killed, allowing for a no map drop scenario.

The chance of this link opening for any given map should follow an exponential decay curve; starting at something reasonable say 10% for a l60 map and falling away for each L60 that has been opened. Higher Maps should have lower starting values for the curve.


This will do several things:
1. After opening a map, further drops of those can be used to trade up.
2. Once opened, characters will always have a map to do.
3. It will lower the RoR. Although there will still be a chance of it early on. Initial L60 odds could be enhanced iff the player has none open, although Fellshine/Pyramid runs are acceptable for characters starting out in endgame.
4. It creates a 'WTF, the map gets bigger?' moment for new players
5. It allows higher level characters to have a 'base level' of map to work from that can only go up.

B.

The Map drop rate is 100% ridiculous, this is suppose to be endgame, the idea of maps is great. but its enough that you need to use orbs on maps, you barely find any in the first place.(seriously i only find maps consistently doing lvl 60-62 maps) what was wrong with the chisel drop rate? why was this the issue? i don't want to look for "endgame" i want to play it. if you want to keep maps at least put higher level areas so people can lvl up or farm or find higher lvl maps. i use to run lvl 68 map's. now its barely possible to find a 65. what is there to do for a lvl 70? do lvl 62-63 maps? that is basically it. because finding lvl 65+ is a very grindy and tedious task.

Why not have bosses have a 100% map drop rate? if the reason if because people would rush them then...why not? who cares. its a map i don't see why people should have to pay so much for high lvl maps. they should be easy to obtain GOOD maps and chisels should be the valuables in this. if you want maps to be harder to find at least make bosses drop 100% 1...I honestly don't see any issue in this. people still would sink tons of orbs in them for good loot and maybe more %chance of finding higher tier maps then just random map from boss. if you did do this.. you should seriously buff some bosses as most bosses are extremely easy to kill.


Also, why is the map drop rate worst with people? i played with 2 friends around 20-30 maps and we barely find enough to keep up our group runs we actually stopped to go solo because we were running low. was it just bad luck? seems broken to me.


Just my opinion based on my experience, the map drops felt a lot better based on party + iiq( i like that people without magic find have chances of getting maps now. but its not enough ), now its just. lvl 63 map party everyday all day and 65 when you lucky.

Higher tier maps should be hard to obtain. Or at least expensive too. As was the case before. They've increases the drop rates since I've posted the OP but I would still like to see my suggestions implemented as they do not change the meta game, and encourage hard maps

Please, think of my suggestion points 1, 2, 4, 5, 6. They encourage hard maps and the risk vs reward is increased. People will at least be able to buy low levels should they run out, et al.

Because it provides a means of progression for one. It's something to look forward to. If all you had was lvl69 maps, why would you run anything else? There's only 2. Would get boring pretty quick.

They provide large amounts of exp. This should not happen all the time.

Why even have low level maps at all? If everyone had high lvl maps in abundance, what would even be the point of having low level maps? No one would ever play them.

It's nice to be able to go back and forth in between map tiers. Provides the "carrot on a stick" scenario. "Oh sweet!!!, a lvl xx map just dropped.

More currency sinks.

Just to name several examples.

Yes yes. I understand 100%. my issue is not that they are somewhat hard to obtain but that they are Ridiculously hard to obtain now. i don't want higher maps to drop like crazy low maps sure? because it take TONS to actually make higher tier ones. but i mean id like to be able to run higher tier maps and have SOME maps drop right now lvl 65+ are such a hassle to get you cant even get new gear to upgrade because you barely make it to past that.

Your last sentence will not, I think, be a problem in OB. Once the third act.comes out, it is my understanding, and I may be wrong, that whatever the the last level is will be level 68. And maps will go from 70-79. This way, you will not be required to run maps to obtain the best gear.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Make hard mods worth running. Currently this is not the case. And for anyone who says map drops are fine, I leave you with this. Before the patch, you could buy a lvl64 for about a GCP, and a lvl 65 for about 5 Chaos. Now, NO ONE is selling lvl 65s, and the few that sell lvl64s, are able to get a Divine for them. I've sold quite a few for that price. I no longer give out free maps for trivia questions either. The supply of maps is diminishing. It is not worth it to spend 3-4 GCP rolling mods, especially if you don't know they'll help on low lvl maps.

TLDR: Read the damn thing

Map drop rate is fine.

Problem is like you said, hard mods are not worth running.
Because they do not yield enough reward.

I've never had (even at its worse) a problem getting level 60's maps. Because I ran hard mod maps. Really hard. (Normally +70% IIQ).

Problem is, I should have been rolling in, not just maps, but higher level maps.

Doing +ele weakness and +ele damage maps like you said, is very hard. It should give a much bigger bonus, than just a small added chance to get a map.



You talking about the price of lvl65+ maps going up. Well DUH. You have more people that are higher level, thus more people looking to buy those high level maps and use/hold those maps. Not sure how you think the price wasnt going to go up with time.

High level maps are meant to be rare. Your trip to level 100, isnt going to be fast, you going to have to work for it.

All of this was posted after the most recent change......

Seriously, I'm not the only one who has noticed that high lvl maps have declined in availability. You've commented on a thread 35 pages long about the topic.

Never once did I say I wanted it to be easy. I want it to be hard. But currently the only map mod I refuse to do is BM. Cause ill die.

If you don't think that people are getting less high lvl maps than before, than you weren't playing them a lot before. Duh.....