Suggestions from another game developer

Hi guys,

I'm making this thread containing my suggestions as a game developer and my thoughts on what could dramatically improve the game, it's dynamics and aesthetics. I will try to convey this as informative and professional as possible.

A little bit about myself: My first experience in game developing was in 2005, for 1.5 years I was taught by a friend who worked on old game titles as a weapons artist such as X Files:Resist or Serve and Bond: The world is not enough. In his experience, he trained me to personally become a freelance 3D artist, for multiple small and large companies around the world. From there I was given the opportunity to work on a pay-to-play space mmo with a large group of devolopers, 150 or so. From 2010-2012 I worked as a QA tester and temporarily as a game designer. Also in this period I studied Game development and design. Now that my contract is over with them in 2012 I have possible opportunities for work in the UK as a lead game designer which could possibly branch into the bigger companies I'm hoping for (I'm from Australia). In 7 Years I've worked on a total of 15 games, pretty tiring!

So with my experience now, I clearly understand how most game mechanics operate and how companies "politically" function lol.

I was excited to see a game developed by a company in New Zealand as it's a rare sight to see a friendly country making it's name apparent.

So here are some of the things that I possibly think could drastically improve the gameplay, as well as not so much (aesthetic/visual nature)

1.Clunky-ness
While I did not get to thoroughly play the open beta (only for a few hours) , I have watched almost tens of hours gameplay via livestream.

A)Delay As soon as I played the game I noticed there is some kind of delay (possibly half a second) between clicking and the movement, as well as rotation of the player when the mouse is rotated. I do not know if this is server related issues, but a lot of other players seem to be experiencing it as well. If the response time is greatly shortened it will be a tremendous improvement for the initial "feel" of the game.

B)Movement speed/attack speed-Moreover ranged classes
Having played an insane amount of hours in diablo 2, and 3, knowing the pros and flaws of both, I know this game strives to be Diablo 2's "sequel". In POE I examined the thing that is instantly wrong with the player is that the movement speed and attack speed are extremely slow for a long period of time until you get movespeed/att speed equipment and stats. While this may be appropriate initially and a gradual curve build-up, I believe this is the wrong idea.

In POE players run at a "jogging" rate. Games that rely on slow movement are games that try to delay the player to absorb the content before it is presented. In these terms, you run in path of exile, on the edge of your screen you see a zombie, you fire some arrows at it, only back away if it gets close, repeat.

In Diablo 2 there was a running pace, and walking was removed from Diablo 3. Why was this implemented? To speed up the pace of the game. When speed is implemented in a game such as Diablo 2, the purpose of the player is to be presented the content immediately and be overwhelmed only at the risk the player makes to move forward.

In these terms, an amazon would immediately be overwhelmed but maneuvering was the only option to kill the threat. IN POE maneuvering and positioning is not as important as it should be simply because movement speed and attack speed are too slow.

So in POE, What does this psychologically present? An environment where the threat is only as slow as the movement you are making.

In Diablo what does this psychologically present? The threat will always be consistent because the movement is too fast, but this is acceptable because the player can move and attack fast defensively.

How can Movement and Attack speed be fixed?
Although I'm not sure what kind of game engine GGG uses and the coding behind it operates I can think of one possible solution that they could probably improve.

That being, increasing the default cap of movement and attack speed and if it the gear becomes too overpowered reduce the % on the gear to a suitable amount. (obviously testing a character with the maxed of both stats)

C)Animation canceling/Animation casting
I see that while firing an arrow you have to wait for the entire animation to end before moving, which also makes the slow combat apparent. Although if attack speed and movement speed are improved I think this area would be too. If it doesn't help, then there needs to be a code that cancels x amount of animation frames on movement activation.

Casting aurora spells while moving stops the player to play the animation is a bit of a problem too, and I'm sure most people have been frustrated to have to cast, stand still and be attacked. Casting while moving promotes faster and better paced combat.


So that was the main suggestion and I believe with the above fixes it could dramatically improve the feel of the game to a point where it feels fluid and smooth. I've read on multiple forums a lot of players leave after the first 30 minutes just on the clunky feeling alone.

2. Not so important suggestions -
A) The isometric Camera angle.

In POE the main appearance of the player is the head and chest/back and small % on legs. I do think the camera angle is too high, it's much higher then diablo 2/3's. If the camera is lowered 10-15 degrees or even more it will be much more beneficial as the player will be able to see a small fraction of the world and player much more.

B)The visual appearance/aesthetics of Armor
This does not seem to stand out as much as it could. Most armor types are brown and grey as well as weapons. I know it may strive for the realistic look, but armor types could be a bit more interesting in silhouette and shape. Protruding shoulder pads, gloves/ helms etc. Make the color palette a bit more interesting such as whites, blues, more defined reds that would be much more eye pleasing.

Of course cosmetics will push it all into a much higher level, like things like demonic wings that extend out? Or glowing aurora helmets etc.

C)Enemy types
A majority of enemies are humanoid types, deriving the factor that the player is an exclusion and is independent. An Exile/different. In diablo 2 there were no bandits and any humanoid types were demonic in appearance (eg. Blood raven). As well as normal monkeys? Everything in the game that is presented in demonic nature appeals because it makes the player psychologically think the demons need to be destroyed. Otherwise there will be emphasis on just killing ordinary mobs which may promote an uninteresting lore of monsters.

D)The players needs to "feel" as if they are progressing into potential Gods/Powerful
I was listening to the lead game designer saying on a stream that they didn't want the players to feel godly. This is actually wrong in contextual and game design terms. The reason behind this is because players need to feel like individuals, independent and an outcast from the game world. This creates connection with the character, and emphasis on entitlement of achievements and gear/stat progression. By doing so, the player will feel threatened, yet the monsters can be overcome with skill and the power the player has. Rather then the player unable to feel any sort of real progression just because they didn't have the right gear/stats.

Of course initially the player needs to feel like an outcast and weak. Although has potential power to become powerful.

I do have some more things I could write but these are just my suggestions on how they could improve the game. Hopefully from one game developer to another with industry experience.

I am not sure i agree with anything you have said, sorry...

A)Delay
there you go... that is what happens in online games when you have a slow connection... try watching the terrible (truly awful infact) film 'gamer' for more effects of this.


B)Movement speed/attack speed
if you go too fast to begin with whats the point of speed boots? I think i prefer my equipment to mean something when i get it.

C)Animation canceling/Animation casting

yes, it can be anoying but to be honest, i think it adds to the stratagy of the game. You have to think several seconds ahead of what you are doing. if you are still casting firestorm when your health runs out that is your bad luck.


A) The isometric Camera angle.
To be honest dont know, but wont having a lower camera angle mean that it is more difficult to target mobs which are nearer to you (a the bottom of the screen) and mess up the sizing of mobs (as they apprat to shrink as they move up the screen)?

B)The visual appearance/aesthetics of Armor
I don't know if you have ever been to the Tower of London but they have lots of examples of real armour (Spelt with a U!!). In real life armour was functional. I really like the realism given to the armour. if you start making it bigger and bulkier you will end up looking like all the silly warcraft characters did in the end - all with huge 80s shoulderpads.

C)Enemy types
more three legged monster children?? okay you can have that......

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that is what happens in online games when you have a slow connection...

I Don't have a slow connection. I have 3megabyte download and 500KB upload.

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if you go too fast to begin with whats the point of speed boots? I think i prefer my equipment to mean something when i get it.

Did you not read my implementation for it? And the relation it has to d2?

That being, increasing the default cap of movement and attack speed and if it the gear becomes too overpowered reduce the % on the gear to a suitable amount. (obviously testing a character with the maxed of both stats)

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yes, it can be anoying but to be honest, i think it adds to the stratagy of the game. You have to think several seconds ahead of what you are doing. if you are still casting firestorm when your health runs out that is your bad luck

In game design, it actually takes more practical thinking and planning in a fast paced environment then a slow one.

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To be honest dont know, but wont having a lower camera angle mean that it is more difficult to target mobs which are nearer to you (a the bottom of the screen) and mess up the sizing of mobs (as they apprat to shrink as they move up the screen)?

Technically no, if they lowered it and zoomed out the same percentage as angle drop there would be the same use of screenspace yet more effective.

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more three legged monster children?? okay you can have that......

I Don't think you understand what I meant, nor played D2.

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I don't know if you have ever been to the Tower of London but they have lots of examples of real armour (Spelt with a U!!). In real life armour was functional. I really like the realism given to the armour. if you start making it bigger and bulkier you will end up looking like all the silly warcraft characters did in the end - all with huge 80s shoulderpads.

The lead developer Chris said he wanted the game like diablo 2. Diablo 2 had crazy armor sets. Not Realistic. How is anything functional as real life counterparts in a video game? Especially Path of Exile, casting Ice spear is real no? I'm talking about the visual aesthetics and silhouette of character models, which are more appealing. No I didn't say to go as far as Warcraft.

Armor has no U in Australia :)

I also studied Game development and design for 2 years and the main suggestions are common issues with most games today. So if you don't agree with me that's fine, I'm just providing the problematic features that has been researched with games in the industry.

GGG should definitively reply to your great post!

I also give ideas but they are always game breaking,I guess I have not found the perfect iso ARPG yet, I dreamed of being a game designer myself but when I tried a video game course in college, I hit a brick wall, I have no idea how you guys do it, I'm probably just a dumbass.

This isn't Diablo. It's an ARPG, yes, but that's pretty much the only similarity. Or do you expect every FPS to be a clone of CoD? Do you expect every RPG to be a clone of whatever RPG the kids fancy today? No? ARPG is a genre, so the more different the games are, the better.

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GGG should definitively reply to your great post!

I also give ideas but they are always game breaking,I guess I have not found the perfect iso ARPG yet, I dreamed of being a game designer myself but when I tried a video game course in college, I hit a brick wall, I have no idea how you guys do it, I'm probably just a dumbass.

Thanks! I hope so too. Hopefully you didn't pick one of the hard break offs like programming hahaha.

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This isn't Diablo. It's an ARPG, yes, but that's pretty much the only similarity.

I'm not really sure what your constructive post is presenting...
After watching a 14 hour live stream with Chris Wilson explaining everything about the game and how much he compares things to Diablo 2, he even stated that he wanted it to be the continuation in gameplay elements I'm sure that settles what your saying.

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Or do you expect every FPS to be a clone of CoD? Do you expect every RPG to be a clone of whatever RPG the kids fancy today?

I'm going to have to say this is quite rude. I'm not a child. I have 7 Years experience in game development, and I'm giving feedback? What does FPS and COD have anything to do with what I'm talking about? Chris has said that he wanted gameplay elements and dynamics identical to diablo 2 with implementations and improvements. He almost stated Diablo 2 related gameplay elements in every single sentence. If I wanted "whatever arpg to be the same as what other kids play" I would have said remove the skill tree, remove the end game maps, but I did not say that did I? I actually like the implementations GGG has made. What I'm suggesting has nothing to do with a arpg what kids play.

I respect your feedback but I will say two things.

1. The suggestions forum is for new ideas that haven't yet had any implementation in the game. The thread you're looking for is Beta Feedback. No one will ever blame you for making that mistake though as they both are basically the same thing except for a tiny bit of nuance.

2. I do not agree with most of what you have said, and I have been playing computer games since the days of Zork. Not everyone with a full range of gaming experience will agree with you. Particularly, I don't like your ideas about MS and AS.

Chris Wilson (the lead developer) has made it clear that they're going for a dark, gritty, realistic (to a degree) vibe. Larger, more ornate armor would definitely feel out of place in the game world as it is now. The developers will continue to add new armor models with Act 3, I'm guessing, and I'm thinking some of those will be more impressive, but won't break the gritty vibe.

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1. The suggestions forum is for new ideas that haven't yet had any implementation in the game. The thread you're looking for is Beta Feedback. No one will ever blame you for making that mistake though as they both are basically the same thing except for a tiny bit of nuance.

2. I do not agree with most of what you have said, and I have been playing computer games since the days of Zork. Not everyone with a full range of gaming experience will agree with you. Particularly, I don't like your ideas about MS and AS.

Chris Wilson (the lead developer) has made it clear that they're going for a dark, gritty, realistic (to a degree) vibe. Larger, more ornate armor would definitely feel out of place in the game world as it is now. The developers will continue to add new armor models with Act 3, I'm guessing, and I'm thinking some of those will be more impressive, but won't break the gritty vibe.

Thank you for the mature response. Yes I was not quite sure which area to put this thread.

Also on AS/MS it may be out of proportion in what you may think. The increase should only be incremental in value. Say the default cap is 50% Movement speed, raising it to 57-65% will not exactly be noticeable to the naked eye but will actually make the game feel smoother. The movement is actually a lot slower then the pacing of most games, which may be different, but I believe that a slight increase would be beneficial to rid the "clunky" feeling a lot of people have been saying. I don't know the exact values but lets just say attack speed also seems to be at about 1.3 per second, say a 1.45 increase in default cap, then the possibility to exceed that to 2+ with gear would also remove the clunky feeling.

I've played Zork too, but a fictional text game doesn't exactly help with 3D game design/dynamics/mechanics of characters and world placement :)

Thank you for the response MaxTheLimit.

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Firstly, bringing up your credentials on an open forum is generally a bad idea.

Thanks I guess so, I generally don't spend a large amount of time on forums reading the troll threads etc. I usually spend most of my day working/QA testing and setting up contracts. But happy at least some people are taking me seriously.

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There isn't an actual delay in movement upon click that I've been able to notice, however for those who hold down the movement key hand have the chracter follow the cursor there is a movement delay it has been brought up before, and I can only assume that it will be looked at. For the time being you can click rapidly for instant movement.

Yes, I have been using the hold to move so I guess this just occurs for that, thanks for clearing that up! I hope it gets fixed.

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In a recent stream, Christ from GGG has stated that this is somewhat intentional. They want the players to have a strong sense of progression. Now he did mention that he has taken these discussions under advisement, so perhaps the movement speed will be increased early and the buffs to it will be scaled back some, but who knows.

As for the combat speed itself, there is animation improvements coming according to the team that while not impacting the actual attack speed, should make things feel smoother.

Thanks for that information! An increase early and decrease buff I think could work well. I haven't been able to read all the threads so I thought some of the issues I presented wouldn't be common feedback.

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The camera angle decreases as you zoom in. Zooming out has come at the cost of creating balance issues and performance issues. Zoom in a couple iterations and you are at a lower angle and back to about the old view distance. Problem solved.

Yes in a reply I posted, I mentioned if they lowered the angle by a small amount of degrees and zoomed out a small percentage it would alleviate that issue possible with a small fps loss, as only a slight increase in game polygons would be on screen.

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They have been improving gradually over time and will probably continue to do so as things go along. I definitely DO NOT support your exaggerated visuals idea, as it is counter to the whole art style of the game, but I'm sure they will continue to improve and aesthetic additions from the cash shop will improve them all the more.

I actually did not claim to have exaggerated armor, only improve the silhouette of the characters with interesting armor pieces.

Thanks for your response it cleared a few things up!