Elemental/Templar nerf?

Agree with the above of course...

Balance is required to be a continual process that players really should be used to by now. Even at release there will inevitably be balance changes over time that break builds... hopefully in those cases where it's known, GGG will refund passive points so players aren't just straight up losing dozens or hundreds of hours of investment.

Players should be able to attempt to specialize, and create powerful builds that way, however it comes with a dangerous price... the dreaded nerf ;)
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zeto wrote:
Agree with the above of course...

Funny thing is that you just started a new page. :p

On topic: I think it's good timing to start a pure physical damage marauder right now. Emphasis on pure. I will restrain from using any element skills/equipment/passives if possible. Or more like: I will not value elements at all. They can be there in my gloves but I just won't care about them at all if those have other good stats (AS%,life,leech). I will not use added fire damage, weapon elemental damage passive, any elemental aura or weapon elemental damage.

I WILL make it HC endgame viable whether there is buffs for it or not.

Okay but my 2cents on physical passive tree: Needs more special nodes on clusters. Like 1 per decently sized cluster giving some neat bonuses. Currently mace has 1 of these while sword/axe have at least 2 each, not to mention dual wielding ones (from which mace doesn't benefit much)
I confirmed that I am still in HC league. Then I died.
Last edited by Targuil on Jul 9, 2012, 7:22:00 AM
Neat, me wants more physical damage on my pure physical damage 2handed axe Duelist.
Open Beta is still "Beta" and people should not feel entitled to their builds.
"MUH ALLFLAME" - dead pirate guy
I acknowledge that the item new item progression is a lot better than the former. If the game is gonna be balanced right it is also a very good idea to have the values scaled high in the closed beta to make imbalances easier to spot. I would, however, like a more streamlined passive skill forest. A 33% or 50% overall reduction would make for an easier balancing after open beta begins. The biggest problems I see in the game at the moment are surviveability (I am not that worried about it since a lot of it can be improved by more skillgems, new monster abilities and numeric recalibration/skilltree improvements), cold damage effects (slow is more powerful than any other standard effect in the game and freeze duration/shatter are unmatched status effects) and numeric inflation on mods and passive skills (though that has been improved a lot by item progression).
I appear to be living in "Romance Standard Time". That has to be good! :)
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radiatoren wrote:
I acknowledge that the item new item progression is a lot better than the former. If the game is gonna be balanced right it is also a very good idea to have the values scaled high in the closed beta to make imbalances easier to spot. I would, however, like a more streamlined passive skill forest. A 33% or 50% overall reduction would make for an easier balancing after open beta begins. The biggest problems I see in the game at the moment are surviveability (I am not that worried about it since a lot of it can be improved by more skillgems, new monster abilities and numeric recalibration/skilltree improvements), cold damage effects (slow is more powerful than any other standard effect in the game and freeze duration/shatter are unmatched status effects) and numeric inflation on mods and passive skills (though that has been improved a lot by item progression).


Being able to slow/freeze your enemies has traditionally been a more practical and safe way to play games like this; the tradeoff is that cold damage is usually a lower amount (which is why "adds 2-3 cold damage" looks way better than "adds 2-3 fire damage", but fire damage can traditionally roll much higher).

As for the OP: this is a closed beta and the whole point of a beta is ready the game for release through testing and tweaking. None of this is finalized. If you can't handle the testing process then I suggest waiting for at least open beta, because all your characters/stash/progress are going to get wiped in the near future anyway.
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Chris wrote:
For the health of the game we have to make changes that may invalidate builds that people have made in this temporary Closed Beta.

In Open Beta, once we're not wiping any more, I can definitely see the argument for wanting to minimise the disruption to people's builds.

Changes we make right now though help us reach a balanced Open Beta faster.

Remember the cycle that happens if we refuse to nerf something:
  • We have to buff everything else to make it feel as powerful as the cool broken build.
  • People complain the game is now too easy.
  • We make the monsters harder so that it's still challenging in the right places.
  • Later, we realise that there has been arbitrary inflation of damage values. We scale them all down without affecting balance, to keep numbers reasonable.


At the end of the cycle, it's exactly like we did the correct fix in the first place, but it took ten times as long and left the game in a bad state for most of it.

Having said that, the 0.9.11 changes aren't really very disruptive. I just wanted to rant about nerf philosophy during Closed Beta.


This is a great explanation. Unfortunately, there will always be members of any gaming community (especially F2P) that believe any nerf to their build or playstyle is unacceptable.

Right now, it seems 90%+ of the community feedback is positive. I hope Chris and GGG are ready for the entitlement and negativity that comes with OB Launch of a F2P game (or any game).

The worst thing I have found in other communities (coughDungeonDefenderscough) is a reactive dev team that rapidly adjusts balance based on any/all popular/controversial forum posts.

Even though I'm not the biggest fan of FFA, the way GGG has stuck to their guns on it is one of the reasons I have such high hopes for PoE. Hopefully the integrity of PoE will remain through launch and for many years to come.

Great Job GGG!
" ... to let them know the game isn’t going to be very fair from here on out."
- Qarl
Fear not fellow monster slayers. This team enjoyed Diablo 2 unlike the team that created that other game. I know. I know. It's easy to get jumpy after dealing with those other guys but, this is not that game nor the same dev team. There is also no RMAH profits to design around.

A gamer is in charge, not marketing.

We are in good hands.
I do appreciate that we're having the worst of the nerfs in closed beta - you should continue to nerf what you think is necessary now, and in the future we can buff it if you're wrong. It's fine to buff things dramatically in OB and beyond, but nerfing things never sits well with people.
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Great response Chris. Devs need to explain things like that more often so the players fully UNDERSTAND why things are changed.

Otherwise they rant and rave without a true understanding of how things affect a game as a whole.

Well done.

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