I know it wasn't tipped as a post that warrants a L2P reply, but lots of what has been said here does just come down to a "this is too hard" attitude.
The correct way to go about this is to lower enemy damage, but add in other factors to keep the difficulty high, but in a way that doesn't cuase huge amounts of problems.
I know it wasn't tipped as a post that warrants a L2P reply, but lots of what has been said here does just come down to a "this is too hard" attitude.
The correct way to go about this is to lower enemy damage, but add in other factors to keep the difficulty high, but in a way that doesn't cuase huge amounts of problems.
How do you balance damage for everybody, when this (see below):
Spoiler
"
Undon3 wrote:
The real issues:
- the skill tree. Why? Unpredictability of builds.
- the multitude of gear. Why? Unpredictability of player resistances, HP, ES at certain points in the game
- the RNG mods on mobs. Why? Stacking of many +dmg mods on certain mobs, auras, etc. Unpredictability again.
Why the unpredictability matters?
Because developers CAN'T BALANCE PROPERLY. There are at least these 3 stacks of unpredictability. They have a Kripp that goes in a 70 map at level 80 with 7.000 HP and 80+ resistances, and me for example, that gets in that map with +60 resistances and 2500 HP and 4500 ES. To add to this, the RNG mobs can roll less damage for Kripp who already has tons of HP, and high damage mods for me.
Conclusion: The system is flawed in its conception. There is no way to properly balance it. Even games that have a huge AAA developer team, almost 0 RNG contribution and simple skill trees STRUGGLE with balancing. Hence, GGG do not even try too hard to balance the content, they actually encourage players finding ways to play the content in completely OP farming mode, basically "breaking" the game. There is a very relevant Brother Laz interview about this kinda stuff.
I don't have much of a problem with monster damage, because it really only starts to become a problem towards the end of cruel and in merciless. I like how you have to be a moderately hardcore player, and be GOOD, in order to beat the game on all difficulties. Any casual can tear through normal, that's fine; it makes the game more accessible. But, GGG also has to cater to the hardcore players who want maximum challenge within reason.
I know it wasn't tipped as a post that warrants a L2P reply, but lots of what has been said here does just come down to a "this is too hard" attitude.
The correct way to go about this is to lower enemy damage, but add in other factors to keep the difficulty high, but in a way that doesn't cuase huge amounts of problems.
Exactly.
Alteration Orb Union Local #7
"Alts are 16:1 Chaos. You got that tough guy?
I'd point out that, as of last I played in CB, there was no resistance penalty for higher difficulty levels. This opened up a lot more space on gear for non-resistance stats, and that was a good thing. I don't know why they introduced a resistance penalty, but I can't help feeling it was a bad idea. Just because D2 did it doesn't make it the right option.
Agreed. The game has plenty of room for creative builds if only the constraint of stack hp or your character is worthless is loosened. Make it an actual choice for someone to get absurd amounts of HP for certain builds rather than a requirement for every build, and you instantly fix the majority of the problems present today. I'm not sure what point can be made against this, seeing as forcing us to get HP actually dumbs the game down considerably. Builds today are about as deep as "find a path leading to the most HP, on the way to elemental adaptation", when they could be about finding making a well thought out build that can make up for pure HP through other means, whatever they may be (personal skill - dodging projectiles; innate spell properties - cold spells freezing enemies; armor/evasion can actually compete with HP to an extent, rather than being ONLY supplementary at best).
It would actually make longer races a lot more interesting too. Think about what would happen if mobs did significantly less damage. The top 10 for the first few races after such a change would largely be the same builds we see today. Then a few races later, someone surprises everyone when he passes the typical top 10 players by a large margin. Everybody is curious about his build.. they begin to take another look at theirs, looking at ways to balance life with other defense measures rather than going by the comparatively simplistic alternative of stacking HP to the exclusion of everything else, always.
And to those who say that it would just dumb the game and make it easier.. think about if the situation was that instead of making mobs do a lot of damage, the game had instead been balanced around low damage mobs with insanely high HP. You would quickly note that this would too be a bad way of handling things. Well, it's the same thing really, except that in the actual case of PoE today, mob damage is too high. Neither of those in themselves really make the game more hardcore. They are simply cases of mobs not being properly adjusted. A matter of tweaking numbers.
Monster DPS was lower in CB, and nobody had a problem with it then. For many, it was a lot more fun. The things that make this game a home to hardcore players are already present in the form of the crafting system, the gem system, and the skill tree. If anything, the current form of the game actually takes away from it, since a lot of the potential for depth in these systems is lost to life (nodes).
Mike
Last edited by theyedi#2104 on Apr 26, 2013, 6:15:08 PM
Agreed. The game has plenty of room for creative builds if only the constraint of stack hp or your character is worthless is loosened. Make it an actual choice for someone to get absurd amounts of HP for certain builds rather than a requirement for every build, and you instantly fix the majority of the problems present today. I'm not sure what point can be made against this, seeing as forcing us to get HP actually dumbs the game down considerably. Builds today are about as deep as "find a path leading to the most HP, on the way to elemental adaptation", when they could be about finding making a well thought out build that can make up for pure HP through other means, whatever they may be (personal skill - dodging projectiles; innate spell properties - cold spells freezing enemies; armor/evasion can actually compete with HP to an extent, rather than being ONLY supplementary at best).
It would actually make longer races a lot more interesting too. Think about what would happen if mobs did significantly less damage. The top 10 for the first few races after such a change would largely be the same builds we see today. Then a few races later, someone surprises everyone when he passes the typical top 10 players by a large margin. Everybody is curious about his build.. they begin to take another look at theirs, looking at ways to balance life with other defense measures rather than going by the comparatively simplistic alternative of stacking HP to the exclusion of everything else, always.
And to those who say that it would just dumb the game and make it easier.. think about if the situation was that instead of making mobs do a lot of damage, the game had instead been balanced around low damage mobs with insanely high HP. You would quickly note that this would too be a bad way of handling things. Well, it's the same thing really, except that in the actual case of PoE today, mob damage is too high. Neither of those in themselves really make the game more hardcore. They are simply cases of mobs not being properly adjusted. A matter of tweaking numbers.
Monster DPS was lower in CB, and nobody had a problem with it then. For many, it was a lot more fun. The things that make this game a home to hardcore players are already present in the form of the crafting system, the gem system, and the skill tree. If anything, the current form of the game actually takes away from it, since a lot of the potential for depth in these systems is lost to life nodes.
Good post, I agree.
Alteration Orb Union Local #7
"Alts are 16:1 Chaos. You got that tough guy?
