Why was the divination card reward structure changed?

"There shouldn't be a workaround to engaging with a boss in some way to get a BOSS item."

But you said that.

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JunkHeadJoePC wrote:

"There shouldn't be a workaround to engaging with a boss in some way to get a BOSS item."

But you said that.

Again....critical reading skills....

"in some way" --> like I described in the original post, either through beating the boss yourself OR trading for the item. In both scenarios, it is the BOSS dropping the item. Yet YOU personally still have the choice whether or not to fight that boss. The same choice that exists now.

The workarounds (cards) AVOID the boss dropping the item, it has nothing to do with how you or I interact with the game.

And before you even start....SSF doesn't factor into this. SSF never factors into loot decisions in this game, which is based on trade being a fundamental aspect of acquiring items. The loss of the cards hits SSF much much harder than it does trade league, I"ll admit: but that is totally irrelevant. There has never been a single decision in this game made specifically for the benefit of SSF only. Decisions are always made based on trade.

"Personally, I think diviniation cards were a complete mistake from the ground up and should ALL be removed."

But you said that.

"

JunkHeadJoePC wrote:

"Personally, I think diviniation cards were a complete mistake from the ground up and should ALL be removed."

But you said that.

HAHAHA dude....and then in THE VERY NEXT SENTENCE "I have accepted that this will never happen".

Go to sleep, you are drunk.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

Go to sleep, you are drunk.

Undeniable at this point.

What I was getting at was the original intent of the thread.

Farming or buying cards, for some, can deliver the same items that others get through end game farming.

Either way, it's a chase.

You and others think this shouldn't be happening, as the divination cards are giving others entry to end game items.

Yeah, there's some that target farm for the sake of playing trade, but hell, it's how they enjoy the game. More power to them.

I like divination cards. It gives me the same roulette feel as farming a single boss would. The same way I loved chasing good prophecies. This is what us casuals do. We get what we can, however we can get it.

You called other comments ridiculous. I am stating the same about yours.

A gimp getting a set of cards that gives them a really nice end game item really gives you that much heartburn?

Why do you play the game?

My point is not that the removal of the boss drop div cards disincentivises bossing, it doesn't my point is that the fact that the vast majority of boss drop uniques in circulation being div card items means that there is an issue with the boss loot tables and that removing the easy option for accessing them does nothing to address the actual issue. There are plenty of people like me who are willing to or enjoy doing some or all of the uber bosses, however needing to essentially run uber bosses like it is a full time job in order to actually make a profit strongly disincentivizes running ubers and instead pushes you to sell the fragments or invitations to someone who will for the estimated average value and just go back to mapping instead.

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CarbotZergling123 wrote:

My point is not that the removal of the boss drop div cards disincentivises bossing, it doesn't my point is that the fact that the vast majority of boss drop uniques in circulation being div card items means that there is an issue with the boss loot tables and that removing the easy option for accessing them does nothing to address the actual issue. There are plenty of people like me who are willing to or enjoy doing some or all of the uber bosses, however needing to essentially run uber bosses like it is a full time job in order to actually make a profit strongly disincentivizes running ubers and instead pushes you to sell the fragments or invitations to someone who will for the estimated average value and just go back to mapping instead.

Sorry but....no. This is how YOU perceive bossing. There are PLENTY of players who get value out of bossing. Removing the cards just increased their value by a LOT.

No matter what, you are grinding somewhere for some perceived value. For you personally, the perceived value is higher if you map and sell your frags rather than go for the 1/50 lottery. For others, they have optimized the way they boss around hitting that lottery and valuing all the rest of the drops as well.

"removing the easy option does nothing to address the actual issue": you said the actual issue is boss grinding not providing value. Well....removing the easy option DIRECTLY increased the value of boss grinding. How is it not addressing the actual issue?

Supply and demand determines value: cards increased the supply outside of boss fights and therefore decreased individual value of unique items. Bossing for the sake of the unique drop loses value for every unique that is created by cards.

removing the cards reduces the supply, thereby increasing the individual value of unique items and thus increasing the value of boss grinding.

You also spoke of "reliability": if an desirable item, lets say "Orb of Dominance", can ONLY be found as a drop from a particular boss....well there is all the reliability you need!

Orbs of Dominance 100% ONLY drop from one source. Reliable. Valuable.

Your complaint is that you don't like to grind....well tough noogies! That's the game lol. You don't want to rely on luck.....sorry but you are in the wrong game.

Every person I have actually had a serious conversation about bossing with instead of LOL wrong game or make things rarer to make them more valuable has had the same thought about bosses, namely that the odds of getting something worthwhile off of them have been so shitty for so long that basically the only bosses you do more than once are uber shaper, elder and uber uber elder and even then its easy to lose money on elder and uber elder if you don't get lucky on decent and sellable watchers because the actual chase drops you need to run the fight 100+ times to have a good shot at hitting them, the issue is not the 'grind' as you put it the issue is the spectacularly low odds strongly disincentivize trying the gamble for most people and a lot of the people who just mash ubers are the people who treat this game like its a job and have 8+ hours a day to throw at killing ubers chasing their good drops. Furthermore your idea of make things rarer to make bossing payout better is not actually that useful, they've already done that, and it disincentivized running bosses for most people. The other way to incentivize bossing is to increase the amount of material moved, i.e. to make worthwhile boss drops more common, when the eater and exarch were introduced omni and ashes were something like a 20% drop iirc and people liked that because they enabled builds, they were like 6 to 10 ex a pop depending on rolls and people still ran bosses a lot and made money doing so. The drop rates got nerfed because GGG has a hard on for increasing the rarity of good items because they apparently think that making the experience of getting a build online as frustrating as possible is good gameplay.

^you are conflating so many different issues into one long run-on paragraph....I can't imagine many people having "serious" conversations like that.

I said you were wrong because you are fundamentally WRONG about things that you are saying. I don't care if others corroborated what you think, that makes THEM wrong too. That's also called "confirmation bias". The ones you continue to talk to are likely the ones agreeing with your false premise in the first place.

Increasing the frequency of an item drop devalues the drop. So if your goal is to make bossing more profitable, making drops more frequent has the opposite effect. This is FACT, pure mathematical and market fact. Case and point: the "value" of HH and other t0 uniques this league, with its outpouring of crazy amounts of uniques. Same with last league: any item that did NOT drop from abusing the absurd quant/rarity/abyss spire farming methods grew obscenely in value because there were far fewer of them on the market by comparison.

Increasing the supply of items outside of the boss fights themselves does the same thing as above: more frequent drops = devalued item = devalued bossing.

Then you get into boss DESIGN which has absolutely nothing to do with this argument. Whether a boss is "fun" to you or not has nothing to do with its intrinsic value.

Your example of Ashes: yes, it hovered at a relatively low value of under 10 divs because of its drop rate. The very next league however, when they reduced the drop rate, that same item shot up to 50+ divines in value. That's pretty much the whole point.

Then you start complaining about build-enabling uniques being expensive and....again....totally irrelevant to the conversation.


If you are just here to vent about how much you hate bossing, then fine. But don't expect me to avoid calling you out on the WRONG things you are saying because you take it personally, like you are taking "bossing = bad" personally. If you want to have a legitimate argument about the benefits / drawbacks of the card change (ie: the POINT of this thread), then get your facts straight and your emotions and tangential nonsense out of it.


There IS a balancing act here: too little supply can cause major value problems too. But we are so far the other way on the scale that we can't even begin to assess where that point is yet.