Finished my first league pass, my thoughts
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Its a much more principled question: "is artificially annoying the player good game design?"
Thats what it comes down to eventually, If trading would make the game trivial, etc... then other things (but never UX!) must be adjusted. Just spent an hour or so trading. Again. I mean, I only have so much time every day. Job, girlfriend, pets. |
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" GGG being 'all knowing'... No... GGG knowing 1000+ times as much as you about the internal workings of the game and its balancing... Yes... :-) Last edited by Cyzax on Jun 6, 2023, 3:40:18 AM
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Innocence forgives you
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" I don't know, like any other arpg/mmo on the market that has trade? POE's trade function and Qol in general can just barely compete with what D2 had 20 years ago, it's not like you'd have to try very hard to beat them on that front... As far as i am concerned even games like Grim Dawn and D3 win on that front because they don't have trade in the first place, you actually build your character by finding stuff instead of buying it, like it should be in arpgs. " Right... because POE is widely acknowledged as a masterpiece of game balance... cough explody totems cough... Last edited by Baharoth15 on Jun 6, 2023, 4:25:53 AM
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" They served a purpose... and they will be removed either when Crucible doesn't go core, or in the changes that inevitably happens when a league do go core :-) Each league always have overpowered stuff to change the meta and provide excitement, and it is always addressed later. That is very much different from issues that affects the long-term health of the game. | |
" And you seriously call that "balancing"? You realize that they intentionally introduce overpowered unbalanced bullshit and then act like they are the masters of game balance? As far as "long-term health of the game is concerned, check the player retention charts on stream. It's been a pretty constant downward trend ever since GGG started following their vision in 3.14. Heck, Chris personally acknowledged that they know that a lot of players won't like the way they are going now but they will do it anyways. They intentionally alienate their playerbase and cause it to shrink. I don't know what measures you use for "long term health" but most games with dwindling playerbases aren't exactly considered healthy, especially not in the long term since the number of paying customers has a bit of a relation with the company staying alive. If you look at things objectively then it's clear that GGG doesn't even care about the games long term health/success anymore, they've started to design the game for themselves (ruthless) and they don't even care what their customers think about it. If the game ends up with 10k something players at the end of it, they probably don't even mind. The upper management of GGG is swimming in money already so they don't really need to care about it at this point, can't even blame them. Feel free to stick to your delusions but the wake up call will come eventually. |
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" Balancing? No. Keeping the game fresh and interesting? Yes. The issue here is that all the ARPGs working the way you are suggesting are bland, boring and cant keep the attention of players like you and me for long, which is why you are still here despite disliking the opportunity costs or downsides of the very same concept that manages to keep your attention. If GGG was to follow the exact same concept all the others ARPGs out there are following, the result would obviously be the exact same. Its interesting for few weeks, then the novelty effect wears off and you would end up bored to death. If that wasnt the case, you wouldnt even be here, which shows GGG does something right - even tho you do disagree with their methods and the outcome. It baffles me that you seemingly cant see this. | |
" Small league blips in power has nothing to do with long-term balancing of systems like trade and crafting :-) | |
" Well, i was talking about balancing so that means you agree with me? I am well aware that GGG deliberately ignores balance and only turns things upside down every now and then for the sake of change. That makes it all the less understandable how people like Cyzax can have so much faith in GGGs ability to balance the game. Leaving aside whether they have the ability, they have no intention to use it from the start. Talk about entirely unfounded trust. |
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" It depends on how you define balancing. If your premise is that all options should be somewhat equally good within the constraints of a league, then GGGs balancing is rather bad. No discussion to be had. If your premise isnt attached to the powerlevel of any given build and also isnt attached to a short lived league, then GGGs balancing isnt that bad. Over time almost all the skills do get their spot in the limelight preceded or followed by that exact same skill or build being hot garbage. Keeping all options equally good is guaranteeing nothing but boredom as far as Im concerned. I dont want GGG to balance the game around this concept, ever. It removes basically all decision making on the players end and hampers the development of the game as well as the introduction of new skills/mechanics/whatnot way too much to make this an appealing option to me. Id rather accept that some of my alltime favorite builds are hot garbage at the moment, knowing they will make a comeback eventually and then I get to enjoy those again. Meanwhile there are always plenty good options available to keep me entertained. And in this specific context GGGs balancing and approach to progressing the game is toptier - as counterintuitive as it may sound. As always in this game there is no definitive answer other than: It depends. GGGs approach to balancing is simultaneously absolute trash as well as flatout genius. It simply depends on what the individual player wants and treasures. |
