when is next league out? surely not in early april?

Much like how PoE navigated Diablo 3, I think PoE will take a massive drop in players in the middle of this year, but over time PoE2 will prove to be the superior game and PoE2 will be built back up to even higher peaks from Blizzard invigorating more casual players to the genre.

We saw it a small extent with Diablo Immortal even. There was mass coverage of D:I for 2 weeks, and then there were 1000 youtube vids made of; "Tried D:I and hate sleezy monetization and shallow gameplay? Go try PoE." I expect the same thing, but it will probably take a year rather than two weeks, because D4 will legitimately be an amazing experience, but I'm expecting the endgame systems to be shallow.

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Gescom wrote:

Much like how PoE navigated Diablo 3, I think PoE will take a massive drop in players in the middle of this year, but over time PoE2 will prove to be the superior game and PoE2 will be built back up to even higher peaks from Blizzard invigorating more casual players to the genre.

[Removed by Support]

And no casual is being inspired to come back to PoE which continues to show how much they despise them (they love casual money though!)

D4 is going to show once again what a niche game PoE really is. That said it's not binary, people can play both. It's just that one game respects your time, and one absolutely does not.

Edit: apparently I cannot express my displeasure of clearly far more dedicated PoE players determining what is and isnt "superior" in terms of gameplay for more casual or average players. There is most certainly a difference of opinion here, amongst a very wide range of player types.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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Gescom wrote:

Much like how PoE navigated Diablo 3, I think PoE will take a massive drop in players in the middle of this year, but over time PoE2 will prove to be the superior game and PoE2 will be built back up to even higher peaks from Blizzard invigorating more casual players to the genre.

[Removed by Support]

And no casual is being inspired to come back to PoE which continues to show how much they despise them (they love casual money though!)

D4 is going to show once again what a niche game PoE really is. That said it's not binary, people can play both. It's just that one game respects your time, and one absolutely does not.

Edit: apparently I cannot express my displeasure of clearly far more dedicated PoE players determining what is and isnt "superior" in terms of gameplay for more casual or average players. There is most certainly a difference of opinion here, amongst a very wide range of player types.

D4 is nothing like PoE, different type of game for different type of gamer.

For instance I won't go near D4 with a 10 foot pole, but yes D4 will have more players. Does not mean D4 is a threat to PoE, it will be popular because of the Diablo name even if it is complete trash (which i think it will be)

Being casual is not the problem with PoE, you can play SSF or trade and be as casual as you want and not worry about what everyone else is doing or how OP their builds are. Go at your own pace. If it is too complicated than move on stop complaining. The streamers generate revenue for POE so of course it is balanced around them, the way the world works.

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Jradlot21 wrote:

D4 is nothing like PoE, different type of game for different type of gamer.

For instance I won't go near D4 with a 10 foot pole, but yes D4 will have more players. Does not mean D4 is a threat to PoE, it will be popular because of the Diablo name even if it is complete trash (which i think it will be)

Being casual is not the problem with PoE, you can play SSF or trade and be as casual as you want and not worry about what everyone else is doing or how OP their builds are. Go at your own pace. If it is too complicated than move on stop complaining. The streamers generate revenue for POE so of course it is balanced around them, the way the world works.

So far it looks like D4 is going to be at least a pretty decent game.
Maybe you should start having a live to enjoy more casual games like Diablo?

so we are only getting 3 leagues this year instead of 4?

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DarthSki44 wrote:

That said it's not binary, people can play both. It's just that one game respects your time, and one absolutely does not.

I want to quickly draw on that statement, you have thrown that around quite a few times and I was wondering, what you actually mean by it. Because from my perspective, it's actually the opposite.

Diablo 3 is as flat as a game can be in regards to knowledge required. Even a person with half a brain cell can figure out after getting a full set that you might want to play around the ability that is buffed by a quadrillion more multiplier on that set, and that unique items that enhance that dmg further or favourably alter the playstyle around that specific ability should be added. After that, the other skills and runechoices only have a very minor impact. While people also critique the diminishing build diversity in PoE, it is pretty obvious that we have WAY more choices here than in D3.

PoE on the other hand is quite the opposite. Minor changes have a HUGE impact. Add 1k live and a few % max resistance, increase your block by another 15%, add one tiny modifier that enables burst-phases or get rid of elemental ailments... All of those very few examples can bring a build from barely viable to "actually feels good" at a certain point.

To come full circle: PoE values the time way more because you get something from it, you get a deeper understanding of the game. And mind, this was only the part of understanding how builds work, I haven't even touched on knowledge-gaps when it comes to playing economically efficient. I am fully on board that PoE requires more time to learn and understand, but this is by default due to the vast pool of information that's needed to play the game on the highest level. There is always things to aspire, always things to improve and even after playing more than 10 seasons I come back here because the acuired knowledge leads to satisfying leaguestarts while the vastness of information in PoE leaves me with always new things to learn. Grind in D3 is compared to that only one thing: completely meaningless.

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Vennto wrote:

To come full circle: PoE values the time way more because you get something from it, you get a deeper understanding of the game. And mind, this was only the part of understanding how builds work, I haven't even touched on knowledge-gaps when it comes to playing economically efficient. I am fully on board that PoE requires more time to learn and understand, but this is by default due to the vast pool of information that's needed to play the game on the highest level. There is always things to aspire, always things to improve and even after playing more than 10 seasons I come back here because the acuired knowledge leads to satisfying leaguestarts while the vastness of information in PoE leaves me with always new things to learn. Grind in D3 is compared to that only one thing: completely meaningless.

I mean I don't doubt this holds true for you, but that doesnt extrapolate into a larger subset of gamers. Some people just want to log on with their friends(or solo), kill some monster's, get loot, have fun, and move on with their life.

They don't want to read a 15k word manifesto, log on and find their build doesnt work anymore, discover a bunch of mechanics they don't understand and the game doesnt tell you, spend hours in PoB, and more.

We are not even touching on the lack of in-game tools, QoL, and other secondary information and scaling that simply doesnt exist in the game. Getting your PhD in PoE isnt a joke really. Its absurd the amount of information that 3rd party tools provide in order to enhance your game experience.

Just objectively speaking, I think you could understand how this type of design, with regards to average player game hostility (and god help new exiles), wouldnt translate to many people.

Again, this isnt a binary thing. Games that appeal to more hardcore elite players can exist with more casual / average versions. That's ok. That doesn't change what I said.

To say PoE respects a players time, imo, is disengenous. The investment required for a video game most play for enjoyment is totally out of whack for what's reasonable. If you have 150+ hours a month to spend, sure maybe it can be rewarding. If you have 30-40 hours a month, not so much, and it ends up being frustrating. I would offer it's why most people quit. Too much is required of the player generally spekaing. And it's why PoE doesnt have a larger appeal in a genre that is massive. The amount of players D4 will have for example will show that the market for a game with a more average player entry point is significant.

PoE definitely isnt for everyone, and one of the reasons is how anti-player its basic design is. It's worked for GGG though, no doubt, I'm just saying there are other gaming options out there that are more respectful of player time & investment.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Edit: apparently I cannot express my displeasure of clearly far more dedicated PoE players determining what is and isnt "superior" in terms of gameplay for more casual or average players. There is most certainly a difference of opinion here, amongst a very wide range of player types.

I've yet to see a topic that is relevant to the game/gameplay that is so taboo that it gets removed because of the topic recently. There are a few topics that are adjacent to the game which will get removed involving politics, but that's not directly related to the game. They've even softened their stance on the discussion of RMT - an acronym that used to get the removed by support stamp almost immediately.

They appear to remove things more based on the way in which the topic is discussed rather than the topic itself. So, I would guess it was a tone or words used issue rather than topic. That being said, I didn't see your original post, so it is hard for me to say.

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Nubatron wrote:

That being said, I didn't see your original post, so it is hard for me to say.

That post was some time ago so whatever. Due to the CoC, I cant really discuss moderation, or what I think about how it was applied.

The general issue in this case was not being specific on how you can identify a more elite or dedicated PoE player, and why they might view the game differently that an average one.

Meh I was annoyed when it got edited, but I'm over it.

Yes, the next league is out in early April. And don't call me Shirley.