[3.24] The dirty Scorpion-tail 60M|The Arachnophilia Allstars| Chaos-Necromancy| Herald of Agony CI

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Void_xy wrote:

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Lyutsifer665 wrote:

^you can always get up to 20 spiders. you dont need random corpses either. just use desecrate so spiders are very beneficial in boss fights.

Thought it is triggered "on kill"? oO

you kill the 2 worms from the flask so that counts as the kill

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Lyutsifer665 wrote:

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Void_xy wrote:

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Lyutsifer665 wrote:

^you can always get up to 20 spiders. you dont need random corpses either. just use desecrate so spiders are very beneficial in boss fights.

Thought it is triggered "on kill"? oO

you kill the 2 worms from the flask so that counts as the kill

Ah yes of course you're right. My bad, so uptime should be no issue. Do they have any more benefits than fast & secure (since they dont die like a totem) wither that im missing?

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Void_xy wrote:

Ah yes of course you're right. My bad, so uptime should be no issue. Do they have any more benefits than fast & secure (since they dont die like a totem) wither that im missing?

they are just really strong. they can do almost all content even by themselves with no Hoag

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Lyutsifer665 wrote:

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Void_xy wrote:

Ah yes of course you're right. My bad, so uptime should be no issue. Do they have any more benefits than fast & secure (since they dont die like a totem) wither that im missing?

they are just really strong. they can do almost all content even by themselves with no Hoag

Yes they do. But thats not the point, it's more this:
When focusing on HoA and it's damage Output (and maybe also Overall dmg output) - isn't CIP the better choice?!

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Void_xy wrote:

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Lyutsifer665 wrote:

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Void_xy wrote:

Ah yes of course you're right. My bad, so uptime should be no issue. Do they have any more benefits than fast & secure (since they dont die like a totem) wither that im missing?

they are just really strong. they can do almost all content even by themselves with no Hoag

Yes they do. But thats not the point, it's more this:
When focusing on HoA and it's damage Output (and maybe also Overall dmg output) - isn't CIP the better choice?!

Singletarget and fullgeared you need to apply continuous 15 withers with anomalous withering step, increased duration, perhaps ashes of the stars +3 withers, then CIP deals more damage. So CIP or triggerwand +2 lvls are great against singletarget bosses in [3.19] buffs.

For clearspeed in maps, full 15 withers and attacking long ranged, not self applying withers, arakaali's fang is best.

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Void_xy wrote:

First of all: thanks for the build-guide :) . Going for HoA sounds interesting and viable. I think I'll check it out. I have a few remarks about the spiders:

I don't see them beneficial in boss fights. Since they only spawn when something dies, spiders won't be up all the time - or am I wrong? The jar spawns 2 spiders and cannot be recharged during a boss fight, right? It's max 2 uses, 4 spiders for 30 sec. After that there is effectively no application of wither in Boss fights as I see it, which is a huge dmg loss :(
They also do no meaningful dmg. So....wouldn't be a CIP with simply wither totem the better alternative? (Jeah I know spiders are cool, but the jar stinks :D)
HoA dmg benefits greatly from CIP and the totem does solid wither stacks.
Clearing would be less quick without spiders, but as u already mentioned, phantasm support in HoA Link will do fine here.
I also checked united in dream, it seems way worse than CIP so far, but since poison will be buffed we'll have to wait for patch notes.


And what are your thoughts on a life based version and on using lone messenger? Going for occultist then (no auras weakens the necro or guardian benefits), stacking chaos res and max chaos res for going divine flesh (and a lot of other changes in the defense layers).

Let me know what u think.

Hi Void_xy!

Thank you too a lot!

That are very, very interesting questions and tough decisions!

So I'm sorry for long wall of text incoming!

The spiders are alltime-up with desecrate, which we use both for spiders and offerings and writhing jar like Lyutsifer wrote. We use them mainly as immortal utility for continious full 15 withers and for clearspeed. In maps they renewal themself often or simply take the writhing jar in the massacre.

In [3.19] sniper's mark's flask charges are nerfed. So you can choose the minor ryslatha pantheon to get hybrid-life-writhing jar-charges against bosses or grutkhul burning ground immunity. Against Sirus or in labs burning-ground immunities are stronger, against others flask-charges. 100% all ailments-immunities are well reached with rare eldritch boots, shield-mastery and arcane sanctuary.

The wither totems die fast against most bosses and cast slow, but are one variation. But they don't offer full 15 withers and not much uptime in my experiences. Of course you can combine them with anomalous withering step, but still they don't reach full buffs.
A nice new possible set-up is in leaguestart in maps:

HoAg-summon phantasms-withering touch-awakened fork/empower/minion damage/void manipulation


(+anomalous withering step/increased duration)

CI is extreme strong with much tanky relaxed q.o.l., when Ultimatum returns or for stacking maximal altars and against many chaos-bosses it will be probably b.i.s. again.
With self-poisoning and the golden rule it's a good choice choice too when you dislike focus deep meditating in map- and altar-mods.
Lone messenger disables other auras, and the 2×+2 all gemlevels of Skin of the lords is in the moment b.i.s. for damage and another keystone for tankyness and substain. The stacked auras and flasks too are buffed great by the 100% increased global defences - so until now 3.18 there is no better fitting combination out there.


We stack the top-highend damage with "pure agony" on medium clusters and the full 60-85 virulences, beside 31-34 HoA-levels and 15 withers and 100% chaos-conversion.
Tankyness is stacked with a high investment in the wild full max mix of keystones, auras, armour, evasion and spellblocks and final on top +max resistances.

With the new +2 corruptions a lionseye vision will be in high density b.i.s. for free pierce and following another 9. support, but comes in with lower defences. Ashrend Tunic +2 new corruption is in endgame weaker when you convert to fire I guess. Buffing ignites etc. will be probably less optimized without more investments. Brass Dome will be interesting for tankyness (only when you get it +2) or The Coming Calamity needs another revisit again too. I am not sure if it will be possible to reach possible b.i.s. +3 lvls with skin of the loyals and another second implicit. Probably of course the prices for popular or rare 6-l +2 corruptions will be highend funny too.

I would not be surprised when we detect the-only-one-b.i.s.-beast in the new 100 buffed uniques.

As Occultist you need high investments, around 4 passives, for melding of the flesh. And some for faster castspeed are needed too when you not want to depend on flasks for generating max HoA-virulences. The defences are hard to max. And you reach high damage only with forbidden flame and flesh, again in exchange for defences - before the Occu deal some less damage and need to camp nearby bosses for all ascendancy-buffs. On the other side for high density content like blight and delve it's the leader in clearspeed with profane bloom and spiritual aid, but also in squishyness. With mageblood a strong ascendancy, without hard to survive.

I try to compare and rank all ascendancies in the spoiler "Why necro? Why HoAg?.

I've been a long time follower of your CI Guardian HoA.
Done some Vatinas spider build with HoP.

Can't wait to try this version with the new items.
We could also check with the new ring and the new mirrored version for the league, can't wait to try some stuff.

Also kinda interested with the new curse :
Alchemist's Mark: Curses a single enemy, granting flask charges when you hit them and creating Burning Ground under them if your hit Ignites them, and Caustic Ground if it Poisons them. Damage modifiers do not apply to these ground effects. You can only have one Mark at a time.

Basically, it will do caustic ground and the spell do : Caustic ground deals 60% of the chaos damage per second of strongest poison on enemy.

So I don't know about the poison damage but could be interesting to explore.

Will kinda start as Absolution then switch to this build, can't wait to try it. Looks tanky and everything!

I think a poison variant with United in Dreams could be very(!) viable. Waiting for a POB update so far.

I also really like the trickster rework. No DMG Nodes at all in the ascendancy for this build, but the defenses seem hell strong. Maybe Dual wield Arakaale and United in Dreams or CIP? Just a thought, no idea if that would work. It would be kless dmg than necro or guardian for sure.