The mechanics thread - beta edition (in depth FAQ)

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Xapti wrote:

True that it's a tooltip damage error, but IMO it's quite MINOR problem, not horrible one, lol.

AFAIK elemental damage just isn't displayed for that skill — that's not biggie at all, I can just look at a skill that DOES show the added elemental damage and use it (taking into account any increased/decreased damage from quality mods or stuff)

From what you told me earlier though, a horrible damage display error would be the fact that added physical damage ring would not actually be affected by any enhanced physical damage modifiers. THAT is a horrible display error

It was the most obvious one and the one I can remember off the top of my head. There are others at various levels of trickyness.

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Xapti wrote:

And to correct myself, I should say that physical doesn't not benefit from ANY damage multiplier, just the physical multipliers, which are the main ones. ALL DAMAGE multiplier does affect it, but generally those are only on quality skill/support gems, and/or specific higher level skill gems

I can assure you that the physical_damage_+% stat does affect those as well. I have no idea if there's even anything in the game which gives you that stat at the moment - this is the kind of thing I'm talking about above when I say I need to spend ages looking things up to translate from the information I have about what stats affect what, and the information you guys have based on modifiers and so on you actually have.

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aimlessgun wrote:

Ok just had a eureka moment while typing this: All my ED% mods are bow passives, or 5% dmg from Archer mod gear. Except 15% to projectiles in general.

generic projectile damage increase will work for all damage dealt by the projectile attack/spell, regardless of where it came from, so that is applied to added damage.

There is a stat: physical_damage_+%
I know that if present that stat is applied to added physical damage as well as that present on a weapon.
I do not know if there is currently a way for a character to get that specific stat in the game at the moment. There might not be. It would take me quite a lot of digging to find out.

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Xapti wrote:

If you're not so sure about whether or not my formula for damage is wrong (that seems to be what you're saying), why did you say it was wrong earlier with such confidence?

When I said you were wrong, you were claiming that it wasn't affected by any increase at all, which I know to be false - since that point you corrected yourself to saying that it is affected by the generic "increased damage" modifier - that was the part where I knew your initial claim was incorrect, so after your correction, I can no longer say for certain that you are wrong (and suspect you may not be).
I will have a look into whether physical_damage_+% is available on any mods/passives/skills at some point, but for now I don't know if your new claim is correct - which is why I have never said that one was definitely wrong - only that I know there is a physical-only stat that affects it that may or may not be available ingame.
So I was sure your original claim was wrong, and you have since admitted such and amended your claim. I am not sure if, of the bonuses currently available in the beta, your new claim is correct.

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Xapti wrote:

Anyway, I did some testing to see if the added physical damage does affects more than just the way my formula shows (although my formula currently doesn't include the increased [all-type] damage that one gets from skills and support gems)

I put on +34 average damage worth of added physical damage, on my current weapon and passives and such which totaled about +270% increased physical damage (3.7x)
Based on the added damage, if it added to the base stat (and was affected by all physical damage modifiers), it should give about 33% extra damage.
if it wasn't affected by any damage modifiers, it should give about 13% more damage.

So after the test the number was very close to the expected value if It wasn't affected by any physical damage increasing mods, and no where near the bonus 33% damage it should have given if it was affected by these mods.

So, based off this testing, I can now say with EMPIRICAL certainty (not to say 100% certainty though), rather than just trusting the displayed damage (which seems to work fine for reporting the damage), that added physical damage IS NOT affected by increased physical damage.

I suspect then that your testing is correct, although it is possible that the physical_damage_+% stat is available and you didn't test that one - it may well be described the same as another stat in some situations, leading you to believe that two modefiers woould work the same when in fact they don't - there's still some sillyness in the system (although I try to stamp it our when I find it). However, this seems highly unlikely, and I suspect that there is simply no way in the stuff currently enabled in beta to get that stat. But finding that out for sure will take me a fair while of checking everything.
Once I'm done with the big stat description redo, this stuff will be a lot clearer - both internally for us so we can actually see what's going on (fun fact - the stat "melee_damage_+%" actually only increases melee physical damage. I thought at first it was working wrong in some cases, turns out it's just misleadingly named) and externally for you guys, both with fixing the damage display and other stat descriptions on the skill popups to make them correct and unambiguous (I hate that some of them say things like "34 - 56 physical damage" and then "10% increased damage" and leave people to guess whether that's included in the displayed numbers - in the redo, the gem popup tells you the modefier, the skill popup tells you just the actual total damage, including your base weapon damage, and any and all applicable modifiers). This has taken some time, particularly because other tasks keep getting assigned to me as higher-priority, but it's coming.

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Xapti wrote:

An interesting side-note I discovered: aside from added all-type damage mod affecting it, added fire damage (based off physical damage) also affected it; I thought that was quite interesting.

in what way? Do you mean that the physical damage displayed accounted for the part which was converted to fire damage no longer being in the physical damage? If so this is intentional, but knowing my luck and the history of that stuff, quite possibly bugged.

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Xapti wrote:

I know you meant well Mark, but first saying "no it doesn't work like that" then just saying "I don't know how it works, or even if just a tiny bit of what you wrote is right or wrong" was not helpful to me.

I said "no it doesn't work like that" when you made a claim which I knew to be false (and I did double-check first). You then changed your claim to one I'm not sure about, and I said I wasn't sure. I'm pretty sure that's a reasonable position to take.

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Xapti wrote:

For now I discovered that added physical damage (off-weapon) is definitely (with perhaps a bit of uncertainty due to testing conditions and such) not boosted by increased physical damage mod, so I presume you guys would want to fix that.

There are definitely some cases of this which I believe to be in error. I will need to check with Chris about them to ensure I understand the intended functionality correctly, and then I will try to get them fixed. But I am also busy with other work (skills to be made, bugs to be fixed).

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Xapti wrote:

MAN time flies.... I think I just spent 3-4 hours on this test.

For what it's worth, I do appreciate the effort you put into testing this stuff - I spend a lot of time on this stuff as well, and there's a lot to get through - your notes in this thread have led me to find at least some things which aren't working right (in my opinion).

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Malice wrote:

But yeah, I'd be surprised if it wasn't how xapti says, Explosive arrow being an attack, and the rest spells.

This is correct

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ziiion wrote:

i have a question related to elemental hit.

elemental hit is suposed to receive a +1 gem level from items giving "+1 level to cold gems socketed in this item"?.

if it isnt it may be bugged?

It is supposed to, and it does.
Elemental hit counts as a cold gem, a fire gem and a lightning gem for these mods.

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ziiion wrote:

thx, i have another question..

if i link a enduring cry + item quality gem

will my general all purpose item quality% go up or it wont do anything, since usually this gems are associated with skill kill?

if it updates the all purpose item quality%, if i activate the passive where i share endurance charges with the party will it also pass the %item quality?

The increased item quantity gem only affects drops from monsters you kill with the linked active skill.
You don't kill any monsters with enduring cry.