Why Diablo went mobile

"

Destructodave wrote:

PoE has always been casual. Its far harder now than it was in damn 2013. It was a joke of a game then. Zero difficulty.

And no, you aren't hardcore. You are playing an Arpg. And to think 2013 was harder than current PoE, you are just one of those kinds of gamers. The nostalgia gamer.

lol zero difficulty yet people farmed ledge and docks for gear. players had no power, which was GREAT as opposed to now where you steamroll everything and everyone. no recipes were known, ton of information not in wiki so people had to find out themselves. uniques dropped only on holidays. it was far harder to reach 90% of content as opposed to now when you can throw shit on the wall and still clear up to t15 maps

lol at thinking someone who plays an arpg cant be a hardcore gamer

lol at me being a nostalgia gamer when all I play is 80s/90s/early 00s games. nostalgia gamers dont actually play 80s and 90s games.

you are trying to bait me so hard and steer away from what you initially said, it's hilarious. the discussion isnt even whether or not Im hardcore, although my knowledge of games should already tell you.

again,

1) your statement was a farce, because you dont care enough about niche and hardcore games. I do. Im a dev myself and I dont care about them getting more money, I care about niche gaming surviving.

2) all I play is games Ive played back when I wasnt able to drink legally. and hey - most of those games didnt have multiplayer if you dont count hot seat and first instances of LAN

3) no response on how is flight simulator on console or mobile. and why was it cancelled - obviously doesn't help your cause

4) no response on why a gamer who likes solving problems and plays dolo against computer in games needs a console in the living room

seriously, if one thinks casual games are fun, again, nothing wrong with that.
but if one think that they should swallow the last non-casual single player games left out there, I would be ok with him choking on popcorn or getting hit by a car while caught staring into his phone. *shrugs*


the 'future' and technology makes kids lazy af nowadays and yet they have 'little time'. hilarious.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

grepman wrote:

'gaming' on smartphones is the most casual gaming possible…

that fact that you're acting like casualization of gaming is the future, is the reason why I will fight it till I die…

here's what I think - you actually like casual gaming. absolutely nothing wrong with that, but your "not much you can do" is a farce statement like you're sympathetic to old school gamers like me who like their games "For us by us" aka FUBU. stop pretending.

Dude, Path of Exile is fucking Cookie Clicker with leveling and itemization layered over it. You're in a forum for a game so casual that its devs have openly discussed watching Netflix simultaneously to playing it. Do you think you're in hardcore land over here? I remember when GGG abandoned that shit, and it was years ago. You're clinging to a past that was never even properly realized; it was at best a promise, and it wasn't kept.

PC Master Race folks are always acting as if other platforms are filthy casual while they're not. That hasn't been the case for a decade, because PC games have been casualized just as much, if not more, than other platforms. When a non-casual PC game emerges, it's not a release from one of the big developers; regardless of platform, AAA games are guaranteed casual hugboxes.

I feel your point about older games, eg 90s games, better feeding that hunger for challenge. But this casualization trend seems to me to be much more a function of time than of platform, and the argument that casualness is forced onto games by limited controls seems downright silly going back to some early console titles. You're making this all "PC hardcore, mobile casual" when such a distinction doesn't exist in reality, only in your imagination. Modern PC games are every bit as casual as modern mobile games, in general.

This is decent bait tbh.

There's a reason why most mobile games offer an "auto" feature, as in the game plays itself. And Diablo Immortal will have that feature too, I guarantee it.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Dude, Path of Exile is fucking Cookie Clicker with leveling and itemization layered over it.

at this point, sadly, yes (hence I said RIP)

"

You're in a forum for a game so casual that its devs have openly discussed watching Netflix simultaneously to playing it.

and that was pathetic

"

Do you think you're in hardcore land over here? I remember when GGG abandoned that shit, and it was years ago.

no, Im in offtopic land, where the biggest discussion topic seems 'alt right' vs 'sjw'. its funny looking at those discussion from scoreboard, way above the game. but I digress.

"

You're clinging to a past that was never even properly realized; it was at best a promise, and it wasn't kept.

perhaps, but then I play 90s games and listen to 90s music and read 1800s literature.

"

PC Master Race folks are always acting as if other platforms are filthy casual while they're not. That hasn't been the case for a decade, because PC games have been casualized just as much

theyve been casualized because of multiplatforming. fuck consoles and a special fuck you to halo, piece of shit game.

"

When a non-casual PC game emerges, it's not a release from one of the big developers; regardless of platform, AAA games are guaranteed casual hugboxes.

I agree, this is why I support devs who openly say their games arent made for retards (and catch expected flack for it)

"

But this casualization trend seems to me to be much more a function of time than of platform

not time, but average audience changing and reliant on handholding. people nowadays cant drive 3 blocks without gps. cant solve a problem without cheating and looking at solution online. me, I memorize the fucking streets.

"

and the argument that casualness is forced onto games by limited controls seems downright silly going back to some early console titles. You're making this all "PC hardcore, mobile casual" when such a distinction doesn't exist in reality, only in your imagination. Modern PC games are every bit as casual as modern mobile games, in general.

you didnt get my point then, because I dont really disagree - but its multiplatforming and accessibility of pcs to the masses that were the eventual cause of casualization.

pcs has very very few niche games at this point, sure. it still has some though.

a game like dwarf fortress wont ever, ever be released on console or mobile as not an emulator/port. because thats not the demographics.

"

鬼殺し wrote:

Im almost 41. Solid gen x. I embraced mobile gaming years ago, as did most of my same gen friends. This isnt about stubborn old guard. Its more elitist gen y and igen who never knew how shitty pc gaming once was, or how much we dreamed of gaming on the go at the current level.

certainly most developers who wanted games to be by us for us didnt wish any gaming on the go, because we sit in front of monitor all day long anyway

dont lump cynic computer 'nerds' together with hopeless romantics

there is nothing 'elite' about what I want from games either. being unforgiving, giving zero handholding and presenting complex problems is enough. tons of pc games in the past has provided it yet you consider 'shitty' pc gaming. not enough polish for you ? a 5 people team could create a masterpiece a 500 people team cannot come close noways with 100x the budget because "non-elite" needs some cool graphics to fap to and have an 'immersive experience' ?

"

grepman wrote:

"

Destructodave wrote:

PoE has always been casual. Its far harder now than it was in damn 2013. It was a joke of a game then. Zero difficulty.

And no, you aren't hardcore. You are playing an Arpg. And to think 2013 was harder than current PoE, you are just one of those kinds of gamers. The nostalgia gamer.

lol zero difficulty yet people farmed ledge and docks for gear. players had no power, which was GREAT as opposed to now where you steamroll everything and everyone. no recipes were known, ton of information not in wiki so people had to find out themselves. uniques dropped only on holidays. it was far harder to reach 90% of content as opposed to now when you can throw shit on the wall and still clear up to t15 maps

lol at thinking someone who plays an arpg cant be a hardcore gamer

lol at me being a nostalgia gamer when all I play is 80s/90s/early 00s games. nostalgia gamers dont actually play 80s and 90s games.

you are trying to bait me so hard and steer away from what you initially said, it's hilarious. the discussion isnt even whether or not Im hardcore, although my knowledge of games should already tell you.

again,

1) your statement was a farce, because you dont care enough about niche and hardcore games. I do. Im a dev myself and I dont care about them getting more money, I care about niche gaming surviving.

2) all I play is games Ive played back when I wasnt able to drink legally. and hey - most of those games didnt have multiplayer if you dont count hot seat and first instances of LAN

3) no response on how is flight simulator on console or mobile. and why was it cancelled - obviously doesn't help your cause

4) no response on why a gamer who likes solving problems and plays dolo against computer in games needs a console in the living room

seriously, if one thinks casual games are fun, again, nothing wrong with that.
but if one think that they should swallow the last non-casual single player games left out there, I would be ok with him choking on popcorn or getting hit by a car while caught staring into his phone. *shrugs*


the 'future' and technology makes kids lazy af nowadays and yet they have 'little time'. hilarious.

People farmed ledge and docks for gear because it was easy. Because it was easy to get rushed to an area where you could farm easily. Its not becuase the game was hard. The fact you think old triple difficulty PoE was harder blows my mind. It was an easy ass game. Current PoE is far harder than back then. You could farm those areas way underleveled and way undergeared, because the mobs were easy, the layout was easy. Not because PoE was too hard.

PoE is an easy game. I guess we have to agree to disagree, but I won a ladder contest back then that I could not win today I can tell you that much. The game is harder, the players are better. I still think Arpgs are a casual game mode regardless of current difficulty.

Its not that I care. I like casual games. I like hardcore games. But to have this chip on your shoulder acting like you are somehow a more "hardcore" gamer because you like 2013 PoE(which was far easier than today's PoE) and you dont play mobile games is a joke when Arpgs don't even compare in the slightest to actual difficult games versus human opponents like League, CS:GO, Quake, Overwatch, Starcraft, you name it. PoE is a glorified Clicker Heroes compared to those games. PoE isn't even as hard as D3 is.

Just this notion you are somehow of a superior class of gamer is a joke when you dont play multiplayer games. You dont play competitive games. You dont even play difficult genre's of games. Get off your high horse son.

"

鬼殺し wrote:

yeah, slow down. reread what you wrote. edit it until it makes sense when you read it aloud.

Your defensiveness is unpleasant.

good; it's meant to be unpleasant. I dont do passive aggressive shit, emphasis on passive.

I reread everything that I wrote and I stand by it. and I stand twice by what I said about popcorn

"

Destructodave wrote:

People farmed ledge and docks for gear because it was easy. Because it was easy to get rushed to an area where you could farm easily. Its not becuase the game was hard. The fact you think old triple difficulty PoE was harder blows my mind. It was an easy ass game. Current PoE is far harder than back then. You could farm those areas way underleveled and way undergeared, because the mobs were easy, the layout was easy. Not because PoE was too hard.

of course poe was harder back then, I outlined why. it was also WAY more time consuming and more of a grindfest - a casual couldnt chain shrines. a casual player couldnt delete shrine trash like nothing with any build, stop it. invasion was actually scary as fuck and is to this date my favorite league because of that. the tiny amount of power players had against an unfriendly game was my definition of niche.

"

But to have this chip on your shoulder acting like you are somehow a more "hardcore" gamer because you like 2013 PoE

Im going to correct you one more time, because you keep switching the subject. This is also the last time I do this because I'm going in circles here.

My first post to you in this thread was about you shrugging about the future and saying 'it cant be stopped what youre gonna do' as if you're even sympathetic to my plight.

I called it what it was - a fucking farce. You don't care about niche games surviving, because for them to survive you need an audience that will care about them. An average modern gamer doesnt care about those games.

I said I care about niche AND hardcore games surviving. niche games arent appealing to the masses. overwatch, starcraft, csgo and such arent niche games. they might take a lot of skill to master, sure - but none of them (NONE) are niche games. also - if you actually read my post, I like problem solving in games. in twitch-based games for most time there is no real problem to solve, its all about honing execution skills.

I'm about problem solving, just like I do in real world. I like it when I'm stuck for 5 hours in one spot in an adventure game - it makes me think and explore logical chains. I like it when maze is loopy and I lose all senses and am in a loop. This is type of games that are not made anymore, because they alienate casual gamers and make them quit. This (people quitting) is the biggest fear of developers nowadays. Not so much back then, hence way more risk in projects and way better game ideas back in the day.

a niche game nowadays is dwarf fortress. age of decadence. maybe even underrail. wizardry iv was even a niche game back when it was released - the fucktard devs then said they would never make such a niche and hardcore game again because (lol) it was too niche.

a niche game is too hard/complex/confusing/unfriendly for an average gamer

"

Just this notion you are somehow of a superior class of gamer is a joke when you dont play multiplayer games.

Ive never said Im a superior class of gamer. you made it up yourself.

in fact, my first post addressing your post had nothing of the sort. I explained why your notion of change is utter bullshit and is picked up by people who treat gaming as a cash cow, not a platform for ideas they're willing to make niche games in lieu of losing cash.

I asked you to name a reason for ME to play a game on console in a living room (you havent answered)

I asked you to tell me why did m$ flight sim - a quite popular game in the 80s and 90s get cancelled if gaming didnt go all casual at early to mid 2000s (you havent answered)

I can ask you again why problem solving games in which you can get stuck (p&c adventure games) were replaced by interactive movies by telltale and dontnod - I know the answer, but do you ? hint: modern gamers stopped learning how to solve shit THEMSELVES and DONT WANT TO PROBLEM SOLVE

"

You dont play competitive games. You dont even play difficult genre's of games. Get off your high horse son.

you dont have to play competitive games to like niche games that arent appealing, how is that not clear ?

age of decadence is a fucking turn based game, but its super niche. dwarf fortress has zero competitiveness yet mobile users will never play it in masses. never ever. unless it gets ascii graphics facelift

and dont tell me what to do so I wont have to tell you where to go

shiiit, by Destructodave's logic, all games pre-multiplayer aren't hardcore lol

Preposterous.

A genre that rose up during the twilight of pc gaming (moba) is used as an example of hardcore gaming. We might as well call chess a hardcore game eh ?

the fact that you confuse competitive and esports-tailored games for games that are unfriendly to newbies/have large learning curve/are unforgiving/arent made for lowest common denominator, says a lot.

I really wanted to answer. But i think it's unnecessary. You are on fire. Keep on burning. I sincerely think that this is the wrong place for this type of tonality and behaviour. Nobody attacked you like you attacked others. If this comes along with being "hardcore", i don't want to be a part of it.