Question of Identity

So if I can find a wheel nut from the Titanic and build a boat utilising said nut I can call it the Titanic ? ... I assume I wouldn't get many passengers, not just because of the notoriety, but also cos I know nothing about boat building ...

Also, OPs boat should be called https://youtu.be/-3ueYxrA-Zs Dignity not Mutiny :P

If I'm lucky enough to ever get a boat it'll likely be so shitty that I'd call it Deuces Over Threes.

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bwam wrote:

The pedantic linguistic play isn't the point, but rather the information being relayed, and the question being asked.

I agree - All we can consider is the information being relayed and the question being asked.

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The sailors would continue to call the ship they were sailing on "Mutiny," so calling it such would be fine. And any warehouse worker would reasonably refer to the ship pieces as just that: parts ("pieces") of the ship.

None of that information is included in the background nor is it in the question...

I only considered what was originally posted. You are introducing "new facts not in evidence." :)

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bwam wrote:

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Morkonan wrote:

The answer is already provided.

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bwam wrote:

A ship called Mutiny has its planks and other pieces replaced slowly, one-by-one, over decades.

The parts ...

You have defined these as "parts."

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The Mutiny wrecks on an island..

You have defined this as "The Mutiny."

"Original" is meaningless.

The Mutiny is the ship that the survivors constructed.

Names are important.

The pedantic linguistic play isn't the point, but rather the information being relayed, and the question being asked.

The sailors would continue to call the ship they were sailing on "Mutiny," so calling it such would be fine. And any warehouse worker would reasonably refer to the ship pieces as just that: parts ("pieces") of the ship.

What is the meaning of life?



Peace,

-Boem-

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Boem wrote:

What is the meaning of life?

Spoiler

Is a perfectly fine question if asked by a dead born baby.

Peace,

-Boem-

My take on THIS question is that the meaning of life is whatever meaning you give it or you find in it. It is not universal, but different for each individual.

On the main topic: the original mutiny would be the one that is reassembled from the old parts from the warehouse. However, the other ship is also a mutiny, just a slightly different one. They are basically the same ship, only that one is made of newer parts, thus they share their identity to some degree.
That is my take on the matter. There is no correct answer though. There never is one to philosophical questions.

Ship isn't a human. It doesn't have an identity, only name given by sentients to differentiate it from other ships for practical reasons.

This discussion would be far more fun if this was asked :

You have John. He is an average human with all average physical attributes as is expected from humans. Lets say John lives in a futuristic parallel world where body modification is a real thing.

During years he slowly replaces parts of himself. First bones, then organs with more functional machine parts with same function. Then blood, afterwards muscles, and lastly the skin. Only organic part of john left is his brain, even his nervous system is made of machine parts which relay data to brain and he still perceives everything as if he was in his organic body.

He takes the final step. He will copy his brain content and functions into mechanical brain with superior processing power.

I won't ask you if that person is still John, but will add another layer.

All his replaced body parts were kept safe and functional somewhere. And someone decided to rebuild organic John together with his last part, brain which has memories and functions moments before he copied himself in fully mechanical body.

And now we have once again, John from the start of story, fully organic and John, fully mechanized.

Who is the real John?

Do we as humans perceive parts of our body as parts of our identity?

Remove all parts, remove all memories and what is left?

Is there an intrinsic value that defines the identity of someone in its least form?

How far must you go until identity is gone and what is left afterwards?

I think we will get these answers in next 100-500 years with advancement of technology. In history there were simmilar questions with seemingly no answer, but with advancement came the answers.

So back to my point that the question doesn't matter. The universe at it's most fundamental doesn't let you ask that question, if you have two protons you can't tell them apart at all and you're not allowed to track them through time. In a similar fashion our two boats are just two boats, being the Mutiny isn't a property of the boats, they're just boats. Instead the property of being the Mutiny is in the minds of the people sailing it, and using it to refer to that specific boat as opposed to another one.

Like many philosophical questions this one feels like it should be important, but it's just not. To expand on that point, let me ask the question, "What's the point of acquiring knowledge?" At it's base it's to help inform decisions, but what decision could this possible help? The property of being the Mutiny is just something people call it, they can both be the Mutiny, or neither could, it doesn't matter, since it's not a property of the boat or anything that makes it up, just the people who talk about it.

What is the significance of naming a thing?
For a lifeform, it provides a basic way beyond physical characteristics of uniquely identifying the entity.
For an object, what does naming it do?

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Garr0t wrote:

What is the significance of naming a thing?
For a lifeform, it provides a basic way beyond physical characteristics of uniquely identifying the entity.
For an object, what does naming it do?

For one, presumably it lets you keep track of that object. Notable exceptions with physics I don't know aside. :p