Calling someone an armchair developer

You know what really bothers me about calling someone an armchair developer?

The fact that it shuts people up and bullies them into thinking inside the box and not out. It doesn't encourage free thinking or promote new ideas. It shames them for trying to improve something they think could be fixed or done better.

You guys realize that Chris Wilson was an armchair developer at some point? At some point he had a thought that he could do it better. He then took what he had from that armchair and turned into the game you now play.

So stop calling a person with an idea an armchair developer in order to shut them up and make them feel inferior for having an idea.

It's not conducive to brain storming, free thought or all the great things we have in life.

/end rant

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Abdiel_Kavash wrote:

The problem is not with people presenting their ideas. The problem is when people say "this must be so easy to implement", or "this would make so much money/bring in new players", without having the slightest clue about the game's code or the company's business metrics.

Well then it needs to be done in a way that explains that. Because that guy could go out and make his own company with a business model, or metric, that fits with what he sees.

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kto9 wrote:

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Abdiel_Kavash wrote:

The problem is not with people presenting their ideas. The problem is when people say "this must be so easy to implement", or "this would make so much money/bring in new players", without having the slightest clue about the game's code or the company's business metrics.

Well then it needs to be done in a way that explains that. Because that guy could go out and make his own company with a business model, or metric, that fits with what he sees.

A armchair dev is someone who talks about implementation details while having no experience in the field or the concept.

The second the guy goes out, starts his own company and is successful, he isn't an armchair dev and can make all his comments now. You'll find in most cases his entire viewpoint has changed after actually doing the work in the trenches.

The problem comes with people vastly underestimating how complicated problems in development can be. They see only the symptom which looks simple as hell and assume the solution will be too. Anyone who does dev for a living (I do) knows how rarely this is true.

People talking about what they'd LIKE to see from a game is always perfectly fine. Then following that up with "Oh, it should be as simple as just storing that data too" isn't. When you say that you have exactly 0 idea if it is. You are straight up guessing. If it was indeed that simple, chances are the one of the dozen devs would have thought about it. The odds of them all missing an obvious solution is far lower than you not having a clue.

So yea, propose ideas sure, just leave how difficult or easy the implementation is out of the conv unless you have seen the source code and know first hand.

~Myth

talking, grumbling, complaining, criticizing is easy.

doing real work is difficult.

I like this OP. His negativity spawns interesting discussion.

I don't see that many people being called an 'armchair developer' around here, and I have been armchair deving PoE pretty much from my...third original post (my first two threads were GGG love-ins, way back in 2012 when everyone loved GGG and just knew that they were going to save ARPGs). Many a name I've been called, but not that. It just seems to be a term that hasn't taken hold. And yeah, given this community's toxicity, that's a minor miracle.

Let's keep it that way and not speak of that devil, eh?

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The_Scourge wrote:

Many a name I've been called

Well to be fair, if you didn't have (and rename) multiple accounts... :P

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Sarno wrote:

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The_Scourge wrote:

Many a name I've been called

Well to be fair, if you didn't have (and rename) multiple accounts... :P

TWO. Two accounts. And one I use just to hide from you and your do-goodery.

And you know I'll always be called The C Word here. Like, always.

Hi. I would like to become an armchair developer if only ggg would release an offline and stand alone version of POE and a world editor. I will develop my own campaigns, maps, items, and etc as long as the world editor will let me do those things. I would probably spend more time with the world editor developing things than playing the game.

Using Chris as an example of an "arm chair developer" is classic Survivor Bias. He made a great game so we all can! All ideas are good because they had a good idea!

Nonsense. When someone has an idea and experts in the field know it wouldn't work, it's not wrong to explain why the idea wouldn't work to them.

Expertise has a place in this world and trying to demean it by saying that "armchair" people need to have as much consideration as the experts is a growing trend that should be stomped out whenever it arises. My position is elitist! Sure it is. There are elite people in this world, and they should be listened to over the masses of your "armchair" crowd.