EE + Flamability + EW + Fire pen = too much??

With EE, F and EW I reduce the resistances of mobs by 123% and resistances of bosses by 66 percent (due to the curse effect penalty).
I heard, that the effect of fire penetration gets weaker, the lower the fire resis is.

So should I keep this setup or should I get rid of a curse or FP?

I currently run an MI Zombi bomber build triggered by the Umbilicus Immortalis, Coruscating Elixir combo.
5 link: Zombie, increased AoE, spell echo, minion dmg, fire pen

The highest map I run was a T12 and there I usually kill anything that's not a boss with just 4 Zombies (Montregul Grasp) and 1 Elixir charge.
I trigger EE and the curses with a level 1 Dark Pact, that is linked to curse on hit and gets added lightning damage by herald of thunder. Dark Pact aims at 10 Skeletons that are cast by a spell totem.

So to get back to my question:
Should I keep that setup or switch fire pen with elemental focus? Or should I get rid of elemental weakness to add enfeeable or sth?

I especially want to know what's best vs bosses because anything else dies instantly anyways.

If you can get bosses below 0 resistances with your curse + EE setup alone, Elemental Focus will do more for you than Fire Penetration.

Switch Fire Penetration back in when you are playing on maps that give monsters additional elemental resistances.

So I looked up the resistances of some Bosses and I am Not sure whether they are still correct in 3.0 but I couldn't find one With fire resistances above 40%. Not even the Shaper. So there is basically no point for me to ever use fire Pen. Am I correct?

Hello? Am I a ghost?

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H463N wrote:

So I looked up the resistances of some Bosses and I am Not sure whether they are still correct in 3.0 but I couldn't find one With fire resistances above 40%. Not even the Shaper. So there is basically no point for me to ever use fire Pen. Am I correct?

I've been told that "It That Fell", the boss from Underground River, has 80% fire resistance although the wiki doesn't mention it. That's the only exception I know of, and it's not exactly super important unless you want to shape that map.

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zagibu wrote:

Hello? Am I a ghost?

Waaahhh, sorry buddy, didn't mean to disrespect or sth. Thx to both of you for helping me out.
Played around with elemental focus instead of fire pen for a while. While EF does more damage I prefer the safety of FP just for those rare cases where I made a mistake and get swarmed by mobs without having skellies to curse on the field and I need those GTFO bombs to explode instantly.
Looking forward to get a 6 link for that 49% dmg elemental focus boost.

I think that you can cause negative resistances.
Well, I always assumed that, yet never quite got around to a build where that'd matter.
As such, Penetration has it's perks.

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UnDeaD_CyBorG wrote:

I think that you can cause negative resistances.
Well, I always assumed that, yet never quite got around to a build where that'd matter.
As such, Penetration has it's perks.

Yes you can, and it's a HUUUUGE damage boost.
Let's say a mob has 40% fire resistance. That means that you only hit with 60% of your damage.
If you than hit it with EE+FP+EW+FP you reduce it's resistances by 160% to -120%
So instead of hitting it with only 60% of your damage you hit it with 120% MORE damage.
Unlike positiv resistances, negativ resistances don't seem to cap.


Your attack does 100 dmg
Your attack does 60 dmg to a mob with 40% resistance
Your attack does 220 damage to the same mob at -120%
That's a 266% more damage boost.

I hope my math and understanding of the game is correct here....


EDIT:
My math is not correct :(
Used fire pen in Path of Building and it does NOT seem to behave like a flat resistance reduction.
Just played around with some mob resistance numbers.
My Attack does 37% more damage to a mob with 0%
But my attack does only 18,5% more damage to a mob with -100%
BUT it does 61,7% more damage to a mob with 40%

In my case I use Minion Instability. That means I can't pick up increased fire damage notes besides the +10% from a 20/20 fire pen gem. Using this vs a 40% resistance boss, that I hit with EE, EW and FP gives me a 42% damage bonus. That means it stays in. I won't change it for elemental focus

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H463N wrote:

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UnDeaD_CyBorG wrote:

I think that you can cause negative resistances.
Well, I always assumed that, yet never quite got around to a build where that'd matter.
As such, Penetration has it's perks.

Yes you can, and it's a HUUUUGE damage boost.
Let's say a mob has 40% fire resistance. That means that you only hit with 60% of your damage.
If you than hit it with EE+FP+EW+FP you reduce it's resistances by 160% to -120%
So instead of hitting it with only 60% of your damage you hit it with 120% MORE damage.
Unlike positiv resistances, negativ resistances don't seem to cap.


Your attack does 100 dmg
Your attack does 60 dmg to a mob with 40% resistance
Your attack does 220 damage to the same mob at -120%
That's a 266% more damage boost.

I hope my math and understanding of the game is correct here....

It does NOT seem to work that way. I have my own build and experimented with massive resist penetration. The results, were lackluster. Even "Path of Building" will suggest to you that more penetration is not a good idea. Take a look at this chart from the Path of Exile wikipedia:



We can see that if we add more pen, the damage boost, per point of penetration, becomes less and less. In short, the first 10% of elemental penetration is worth far more than the second 10%, and the second is worth more than the third and so on.

@OP - don't stack so much resistance penetration. It isn't worth it. Use Path of Building to experiment for optimization.

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TheRealSlayton wrote:

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H463N wrote:

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UnDeaD_CyBorG wrote:

I think that you can cause negative resistances.
Well, I always assumed that, yet never quite got around to a build where that'd matter.
As such, Penetration has it's perks.

Yes you can, and it's a HUUUUGE damage boost.
Let's say a mob has 40% fire resistance. That means that you only hit with 60% of your damage.
If you than hit it with EE+FP+EW+FP you reduce it's resistances by 160% to -120%
So instead of hitting it with only 60% of your damage you hit it with 120% MORE damage.
Unlike positiv resistances, negativ resistances don't seem to cap.


Your attack does 100 dmg
Your attack does 60 dmg to a mob with 40% resistance
Your attack does 220 damage to the same mob at -120%
That's a 266% more damage boost.

I hope my math and understanding of the game is correct here....

It does NOT seem to work that way. I have my own build and experimented with massive resist penetration. The results, were lackluster. Even "Path of Building" will suggest to you that more penetration is not a good idea. Take a look at this chart from the Path of Exile wikipedia:



We can see that if we add more pen, the damage boost, per point of penetration, becomes less and less. In short, the first 10% of elemental penetration is worth far more than the second 10%, and the second is worth more than the third and so on.

@OP - don't stack so much resistance penetration. It isn't worth it. Use Path of Building to experiment for optimization.

I might be wrong but this is not what the graph is showing. The graph shows the relation between resistance and damage boost a 10% penetration will give you. And it shows, that pen works best vs mobs with high resistances.
Getting a mob from 40% to 0% is waaaay better than from 0% to -40%