EE + Flamability + EW + Fire pen = too much??

With EE, F and EW I reduce the resistances of mobs by 123% and resistances of bosses by 66 percent (due to the curse effect penalty).
I heard, that the effect of fire penetration gets weaker, the lower the fire resis is.

So should I keep this setup or should I get rid of a curse or FP?

I currently run an MI Zombi bomber build triggered by the Umbilicus Immortalis, Coruscating Elixir combo.
5 link: Zombie, increased AoE, spell echo, minion dmg, fire pen

The highest map I run was a T12 and there I usually kill anything that's not a boss with just 4 Zombies (Montregul Grasp) and 1 Elixir charge.
I trigger EE and the curses with a level 1 Dark Pact, that is linked to curse on hit and gets added lightning damage by herald of thunder. Dark Pact aims at 10 Skeletons that are cast by a spell totem.

So to get back to my question:
Should I keep that setup or switch fire pen with elemental focus? Or should I get rid of elemental weakness to add enfeeable or sth?

I especially want to know what's best vs bosses because anything else dies instantly anyways.

Last bumped on Oct 16, 2017 2:28:42 PM
If you can get bosses below 0 resistances with your curse + EE setup alone, Elemental Focus will do more for you than Fire Penetration.

Switch Fire Penetration back in when you are playing on maps that give monsters additional elemental resistances.
Zagibu ubigaz, nichts mehr wert ist dieser Schatz.
So I looked up the resistances of some Bosses and I am Not sure whether they are still correct in 3.0 but I couldn't find one With fire resistances above 40%. Not even the Shaper. So there is basically no point for me to ever use fire Pen. Am I correct?
Hello? Am I a ghost?
Zagibu ubigaz, nichts mehr wert ist dieser Schatz.
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H463N wrote:
So I looked up the resistances of some Bosses and I am Not sure whether they are still correct in 3.0 but I couldn't find one With fire resistances above 40%. Not even the Shaper. So there is basically no point for me to ever use fire Pen. Am I correct?


I've been told that "It That Fell", the boss from Underground River, has 80% fire resistance although the wiki doesn't mention it. That's the only exception I know of, and it's not exactly super important unless you want to shape that map.
"
Completed 24 Challengeszagibu wrote:
Hello? Am I a ghost?


Waaahhh, sorry buddy, didn't mean to disrespect or sth. Thx to both of you for helping me out.
Played around with elemental focus instead of fire pen for a while. While EF does more damage I prefer the safety of FP just for those rare cases where I made a mistake and get swarmed by mobs without having skellies to curse on the field and I need those GTFO bombs to explode instantly.
Looking forward to get a 6 link for that 49% dmg elemental focus boost.
I think that you can cause negative resistances.
Well, I always assumed that, yet never quite got around to a build where that'd matter.
As such, Penetration has it's perks.
Zaanus:
Global chat: Mechanics for A work one way, B for another, C for a third but also with A, B uses C but not A, and D uses A&B but not C

___
Isn't a "no" better than an ignore?
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I think that you can cause negative resistances.
Well, I always assumed that, yet never quite got around to a build where that'd matter.
As such, Penetration has it's perks.


Yes you can, and it's a HUUUUGE damage boost.
Let's say a mob has 40% fire resistance. That means that you only hit with 60% of your damage.
If you than hit it with EE+FP+EW+FP you reduce it's resistances by 160% to -120%
So instead of hitting it with only 60% of your damage you hit it with 120% MORE damage.
Unlike positiv resistances, negativ resistances don't seem to cap.


Your attack does 100 dmg
Your attack does 60 dmg to a mob with 40% resistance
Your attack does 220 damage to the same mob at -120%
That's a 266% more damage boost.

I hope my math and understanding of the game is correct here....


EDIT:
My math is not correct :(
Used fire pen in Path of Building and it does NOT seem to behave like a flat resistance reduction.
Just played around with some mob resistance numbers.
My Attack does 37% more damage to a mob with 0%
But my attack does only 18,5% more damage to a mob with -100%
BUT it does 61,7% more damage to a mob with 40%

In my case I use Minion Instability. That means I can't pick up increased fire damage notes besides the +10% from a 20/20 fire pen gem. Using this vs a 40% resistance boss, that I hit with EE, EW and FP gives me a 42% damage bonus. That means it stays in. I won't change it for elemental focus

Last edited by H463N on Oct 16, 2017 2:17:20 PM
"
H463N wrote:
"
I think that you can cause negative resistances.
Well, I always assumed that, yet never quite got around to a build where that'd matter.
As such, Penetration has it's perks.


Yes you can, and it's a HUUUUGE damage boost.
Let's say a mob has 40% fire resistance. That means that you only hit with 60% of your damage.
If you than hit it with EE+FP+EW+FP you reduce it's resistances by 160% to -120%
So instead of hitting it with only 60% of your damage you hit it with 120% MORE damage.
Unlike positiv resistances, negativ resistances don't seem to cap.


Your attack does 100 dmg
Your attack does 60 dmg to a mob with 40% resistance
Your attack does 220 damage to the same mob at -120%
That's a 266% more damage boost.

I hope my math and understanding of the game is correct here....


It does NOT seem to work that way. I have my own build and experimented with massive resist penetration. The results, were lackluster. Even "Path of Building" will suggest to you that more penetration is not a good idea. Take a look at this chart from the Path of Exile wikipedia:

Resistance_penetration_efficacy

We can see that if we add more pen, the damage boost, per point of penetration, becomes less and less. In short, the first 10% of elemental penetration is worth far more than the second 10%, and the second is worth more than the third and so on.

@OP - don't stack so much resistance penetration. It isn't worth it. Use Path of Building to experiment for optimization.
"
"
H463N wrote:
"
I think that you can cause negative resistances.
Well, I always assumed that, yet never quite got around to a build where that'd matter.
As such, Penetration has it's perks.


Yes you can, and it's a HUUUUGE damage boost.
Let's say a mob has 40% fire resistance. That means that you only hit with 60% of your damage.
If you than hit it with EE+FP+EW+FP you reduce it's resistances by 160% to -120%
So instead of hitting it with only 60% of your damage you hit it with 120% MORE damage.
Unlike positiv resistances, negativ resistances don't seem to cap.


Your attack does 100 dmg
Your attack does 60 dmg to a mob with 40% resistance
Your attack does 220 damage to the same mob at -120%
That's a 266% more damage boost.

I hope my math and understanding of the game is correct here....


It does NOT seem to work that way. I have my own build and experimented with massive resist penetration. The results, were lackluster. Even "Path of Building" will suggest to you that more penetration is not a good idea. Take a look at this chart from the Path of Exile wikipedia:

Resistance_penetration_efficacy

We can see that if we add more pen, the damage boost, per point of penetration, becomes less and less. In short, the first 10% of elemental penetration is worth far more than the second 10%, and the second is worth more than the third and so on.

@OP - don't stack so much resistance penetration. It isn't worth it. Use Path of Building to experiment for optimization.



I might be wrong but this is not what the graph is showing. The graph shows the relation between resistance and damage boost a 10% penetration will give you. And it shows, that pen works best vs mobs with high resistances.
Getting a mob from 40% to 0% is waaaay better than from 0% to -40%

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