Eldritch Battery vs Chaos Inoculation vs Pain Attunement

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Strill wrote:

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FaceLicker wrote:

Who knows for sure what the build was.. by why are you guys ONLY assuming it has to be a Witch build? Seems to me that a bow user can create some pretty hefty mana cost skills. Can a bow user not also take advantage of Mana Leech?

The build in question had Eldritch Battery. A bow build would be decisively not OP due to the number of points it wasted to get to Eldritch Battery.

Haha, and you are so dismissive simply because it take ONLY 9 points to get to Eldritch Battery? I can hardly believe that the deciding factor in an OP build is difference of 9 points.

If we are to use that way of thinking.. then an AoF Bow Templar is in fact not OP because it takes 11 points to get to AoF keystone.

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FaceLicker wrote:

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Strill wrote:

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FaceLicker wrote:

Who knows for sure what the build was.. by why are you guys ONLY assuming it has to be a Witch build? Seems to me that a bow user can create some pretty hefty mana cost skills. Can a bow user not also take advantage of Mana Leech?

The build in question had Eldritch Battery. A bow build would be decisively not OP due to the number of points it wasted to get to Eldritch Battery.

Haha, and you are so dismissive simply because it take ONLY 9 points to get to Eldritch Battery? I can hardly believe that the deciding factor in an OP build is difference of 9 points.

If we are to use that way of thinking.. then an AoF Bow Templar is in fact not OP because it takes 11 points to get to AoF keystone.

You're ignoring the number of passives it takes to get from the witch tree down to bow passives.

You can make up for taking AoF as a bow user thanks to the ele damage and burning passives directly nearby.

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Strill wrote:

You're ignoring the number of passives it takes to get from the witch tree down to bow passives.

You can make up for taking AoF as a bow user thanks to the ele damage and burning passives directly nearby.

I'm not ignoring them. I'm taking the frenzy charge and attack speed passives into consideration around the dex area. You don't have to spec fully into bow passives just to use one. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it would absolutely work. You more than likely have more experience than I in the INT area of the tree and know a bit more, but I wouldn't discount alternate builds simply because Eldritch is in the INT area and caster Witches would most likely benefit the most.

You also have to consider gearing for energy shield (int based) to make it worthwhile - not to mention Int in general to increase it. If you have a 200~ energy shield, it's not worth the 9 points to get out there.

Now there are some uniques that change that though...

Thanks for the feedback on the three Keystones in the original post.

I am tempted to remove posts derailing the discussion (I may be at fault there either).

Those who don't value Eldritch Battery - what would make it worthwhile?

Right now it makes you sacrifice your main defensive mechanism for pure mana. While that does allow you to cast a bit more often without flasks it makes you need health flasks as opposed to chaos inoculation which would allow you five mana flasks, and probably beat your mana regen from eldritch battery.

So personally, I'd suggest some form of strong enough offensive boost along with the mana, or even scaling off of it, that way one could use it as more of a glass cannon, rather than a glass pistol with a large round.

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Qarl wrote:

Thanks for the feedback on the three Keystones in the original post.

I am tempted to remove posts derailing the discussion (I may be at fault there either).

Those who don't value Eldritch Battery - what would make it worthwhile?

I can see how Eldritch Battery can allow you to sustain a fifth support in a wand build, but I don't see why it would be necessary in the first place. Anything up to four supports can be sustained with flasks, and moreover it's already possible to go around one-shotting most mobs in chaos with just three supports anyway. Getting even stronger doesn't really accomplish anything other than giving you the convenience of not having to use curses.

I think at the moment it's not really possible to give decent feedback because the mobs are too easy, which inflates the effectiveness of flask regen, possibly beyond what is intended. If flasks weren't as reliable as they are, I can definitely see how consistent mana leech with Eldritch Battery could be an asset.

Personally I'd suggest some kind of skill gem or item which increases damage but drastically reduces mana efficiency, but I can't be sure if I'm familiar enough with the maximum potential for mana regen to say whether it would be too good or not.

Another note is that it seems like Mana Leech is much easier to get and much more effective than passive Mana regen, even with plenty of passives and gear to boost regen. As you could see in my earlier posts in this thread, I couldn't think of any use at all for Eldritch Battery without considering mana leech, and still can't.

It's been my opinion that in most every MMO, max mana is relatively unimportant and mana regen is king, and I've found that to be true in this one as well. The reason is that you most often end up in prolonged fights that go far beyond your base mana capacity anyway, so it's your regen that you rely on most often. That I am able to have so little trouble with Voll's Armour is a testament to that. On one hand I was pleased to see that passive mana regen and max mana were tied to one another since that makes max mana a useful stat, but on the other hand the other forms of mana regen seem to end up far more effective, which places max mana back on the bottom of the food chain. (Just look at how few people take Alira's offer in the bandit amulet quest)

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Umbraal wrote:

Right now it makes you sacrifice your main defensive mechanism for pure mana. While that does allow you to cast a bit more often without flasks it makes you need health flasks as opposed to chaos inoculation which would allow you five mana flasks, and probably beat your mana regen from eldritch battery.

So personally, I'd suggest some form of strong enough offensive boost along with the mana, or even scaling off of it, that way one could use it as more of a glass cannon, rather than a glass pistol with a large round.

This is well said. The skill would be more appealing if there was a cast speed boost associated with it. You get more mana and you can blow through it faster, but you have no defense. It's a high risk/high reward style play that many enjoy.

My main concern with this is that with so much freedom in the game you'll end up with an even more abuse able build from it...

Not seeing how you're even getting close to 3k mana with EB - unless we're talking pure glass cannon and wearing all energy shield gear, but even then that's debatable.

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sanddemon wrote:

Not seeing how you're even getting close to 3k mana with EB - unless we're talking pure glass cannon and wearing all energy shield gear, but even then that's debatable.

1500 Energy Shield and 900 mana and you're most of the way there already. Just squeeze out a bit more energy shield and you've made it.