Melee builds are complete trash
" Wait... Are we now going by the definition that "True Melee" only encompasses unsupported ST melee skills? Since that's asinine to be honest. Skills like Blade Flurry, Sunder, Lacerate and to an extent Frost Blades and Earthquake aren't "True Melee" because they have a ton of range on them. Like, they have ranges of unsupported spells. However, cleaving/splashing is still "True Melee". You still get up close and smack shit with a big fuck off weapon. As such, it's perfectly plausible that "True Melee" can become somewhat on par with Spells/Bows. It would all be a case of adjusting damage and movement speeds so that they could keep up. Of course, area of said splashes and cleaves too (Right now Melee Splash is tiny compared to ranged AoE's) Right now, these "True Melee" skills don't suck because they're "True Melee" or because they're "Just Auto-Attacks". They suck because there's nothing to support them into becoming decent skills. Like, heck, with a shitty ranged skill like Puncture, you can at least mod it with GMP and Pierce or Chain and be able to hit swathes of enemies. It still sucks compared to natural AoE skills (Because GGG forgot that ST and AoE skills shouldn't have similar damage numbers at some point... Also, they then power creeped the fuck out of the game so AoE skills can nuke down anything without much difficulty) With these bad melee skills, all you have is Melee Splash and Fortify to give them any kind of utility and that is, frankly, peanuts in the grand scheme of things. Especially when you have crap like Raider able to give a ton of Frenzy charges and Onslaught on whatever build you want. | |
" First of all, drop the bolding, you look ridiculous. See, you're again arguing with yourself. Please find my quote where I've said that melee can be on par with ranged with "modern pack size". Putting MS on a skill doesn't mean it's not melee anymore. I'm not sure if you're able to follow what I'm writing in this thread but you should at least try. It's just splash, it's not that big and you still have to hit a monster to do damage. While with Sunder/EQ/BF/Lacerate you can kill stuff at half a screen+, which is a definition of a ranged skill. You continue with Cleave, same baseless garbage. It's not "one's point of view". You should educate yourself and learn what melee and what ranged means. What really happened is that GGG is doing your artificially adjusting the scope of the argument to fit one's point of view. with their melee tags on ranged skills. " Not even going to go there lmao. You're just eager for some confrontations and attention. You should really stop making stuff up and using the made-up stuff as your arguments. It's disturbing. And I almost went to your last bit of the post to comment on that, but there's no way I'm going to waste time on you doing that shit. Learn to read, discuss and provide actual arguments. Stop making stuff up. Then we may have a proper discussion. This is just silly. Bye. Get your daily attention and ego boost somewhere else lmao | |
" LOLOL thanks for that! Everything about that video screams broken cheesy self-indulgent vomitrocious excess. Want a real challenge? Try playing an honest melee build fully zoomed-in, so you can actually brawl with your foes rather than exterminating a bug infestation with crackhead toxic spam. Last edited by RogueMage on Apr 21, 2017, 5:19:38 PM
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" When was the last time you used Melee Splash? Melee Splash level 20 covers just about half the screen... Melee Splash literally gives me more range than Lacerate does, and people want to handwave away Lacerate. That's internally inconsistent logic to say the least. Need game info? Check out the Wiki at: https://www.poewiki.net/ Contact support@grindinggear.com for account issues. Check out How to Report Bugs + Post Images at: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/18347 Last edited by adghar on Apr 21, 2017, 5:20:53 PM
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" If we are going to define melee as a autoattack that can attach splash to it then by logic 95% of "true melee" skills would be useless since you would just use the best of the bunch because all of them are functionally the same thing. If we also going to define melee as something that artificially has fewer mechanics to make itself stronger compared to other skills on top of having no special mechanic or utility to it then obviously it's worst then anything else. Since at best it can hit one person at a time at super close range with an item that requires high stats to be useful. Let's we decide to buff "True melee" attacks by 50% damage, nobody would still use them other than maybe for a single target setup. Or I would just play shit like flicker strike and teleport around the entire map be still being "melee", or use functionally better skills like molten strike that still benefit from it. Last edited by RagnarokChu on Apr 21, 2017, 5:27:24 PM
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Honestly, "true melee" is a distraction at best.
Talk about melee, talk about hitting things with swords or axes or maces or daggers, without throwing them. Lacerate falls under that category, and whether you like it or not, Blade Flurry does too.* You can handwave away whatever blurred boundary lines for your standard of melee is. Or maybe define a set number of units of distance covered by an Attack, in which case Melee Splash Heavy Strike is less melee than Lacerate. *Yes, the visuals of it piss me off too. Why would GGG put spell visuals on an Attack skill?!?! More slashes, less splashes. Noob graphic designers!** **Just kidding, I know you guys aren't noobs. You're very skilled designers who have a certain aesthetic vision... but I don't like that vision! Need game info? Check out the Wiki at: https://www.poewiki.net/ Contact support@grindinggear.com for account issues. Check out How to Report Bugs + Post Images at: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/18347 Last edited by adghar on Apr 21, 2017, 5:28:58 PM
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" Naw this would be equal to saying puncture is "true ranged" because you take aim and fire a physical projectile at a target and tornado shot/blast shot is pseudo ranged/real archer. Ignoring the fact that an enhanced basic attack/ability it shitty in all areas of the game for both ranged/melee/spells. Last edited by RagnarokChu on Apr 21, 2017, 5:37:36 PM
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" Last time I used Melee Splash? Uhh... Today. I have a couple of melee characters I like to hit stuff with. And covering half the screen IS tiny compared to spells. Which, if using projectiles can cover SEVERAL screens. Melee splash can give more range than Lacerate... Yet it requires you to get into something's face to hit so you can splash off them. Lacerate lets you just stand 20 yards away and throw your damage at things. It circumvents the typical "Melee" aspect of being in the thick of things. That's why it's hand waved over as "Not Melee" You see, it's not about the area that a particular skill can damage that denotes whether people see it as "Melee" or "Ranged" but rather, the playstyle that it requires. Melee Splash requires you to get close and bop something on the head. Lacerate, Blade Flurry et al. Do not require you to get close. They're only melee in so much as you arbitrarily need to equip a melee weapon. They could be relisted as Spells and no-one would think twice about their mechanics or playstyle. | |
" If your only going to argue about skills that you have to "bop people over the ahead". Then all of them are nearly functional with no extra utility or mechanics to it, wouldn't it logically make sense that 95% of then are garbage because you would put the best out of all of them? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2BVfbZ2WMg This is "true melee". Actual move sets, combos, weight to attacks, positioning, speed, reach of each weapon, ect. Ranged in that game is actually extremely difficult to use and dangerous. A top down character doing an animation is far from "true" melee anyway. Last edited by RagnarokChu on Apr 21, 2017, 5:46:17 PM
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" tinko your experience of this game in the last 2 years since ascendacy came out consists of a lvl90 berserker a lvl91 gladiator a lvl95 trickster a lvl65 assassin ....thats it. Your beserker and gladiator look terrible on paper, I dont see anything that makes me suspect youve played a single decent build be it melee or caster in the last 2 years. That doesnt make you a bad person, that doesnt say a single negative thing about you as an individual, but it does put a massive question mark over your opinions of current game balance between build archetypes. Seeing as you are so convinced theres major problems why dont you show them to us? Post up some videos of what your casters are doing and then what your melee builds are doing so we can see this disparity from the point of view you are seeing it from? How about that? theres no shame in it, people may criticse the way youve made or played the characters but its just a computer game, its not something that should effect your ego as a human being. Theres games Im terrible at, absolutely terrible, I got no problem admitting that. " I wouldnt worry about it mate because neither have ppl like sid or tinko etc that you are debating with. Struggling to hit lvl90, cant make a build work with a 20ex budget, cant do t13+, need spell block, cant do atziri, those are all issues with people not making their characters well. None of that should be happening if people know what theyre doing because plenty of people are not having these issues. Thats not saying there isnt issues, but like everything with criticism of this game theres issues with the game and issues with how people are playing it. People often want to blame the game because they like to think they know it all, cant accept any sort of failure on their own part. I think the reason GGG have not 'fixed' melee for most people who think its broken is because they can see that 95% of criticism put forward is player error, thats why 95% of criticism has gone by without being addressed with balance changes. You start to pick apart peoples builds and say hey man you could do this or that differently, this thing youre doing here and there is rly not the way to do things, they start getting defensive and insisting they have no problems with their builds etc. So if their melee builds are doing just fine then whats the problem? If I was having an issue with melee or casters or bows I would look for help. If you havent tried melee 10 different ways on high level builds I dont see how you can even begin to think youve done anything to rule out that the fault is with you. I dont have any problems putting together a wide range of melee, caster and bow builds that can absolutely trash high tier maps. In my experience theres actually more choices for trashing t16 maps very comfortably with attack builds than there is spell builds, but Im more than willing for guys in this thread to show me videos of a range of spell builds they have made making easy work of guardians/uber, maybe Im gonna see something I havent seen before. We talk about range offscreen etc, sure thats true, but one of the best spells for trashing those higher tiers of maps is bladevortex, that spell is ahead of most long range spells in my experience. Most boss fights are going to pin you into a small area anyway. |
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