Melee builds are complete trash

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tinko92 wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

Saying that evasion is dogshit and is never worth using in

You seriously made that up in your weird brain based on my usage of Kaoms Roots?


LMAO

No, on some posts that I saw in this forums.

Altho there's been a lot of sh*t said a bit everywhere here and I could be mistaking, my bad if it's the case.

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Peterlerock wrote:

If everybody uses his own definition of what is melee and what isn't, good luck for a "discussion".
Even if you don't like it, the only somewhat objective definition of melee in this game is: Everything that has a "melee" tag must be considered melee.

This is pure blindness. You're blinded by GGG's action of slapping melee tag on ranged skills. And you're ready to embrace those skills as real melee skills just because GGG slapped that tag on them.
They could slap the tag on Fireball tomorrow and you'd still agree on them.

Like a fanatic. It's pointless discussing melee with someone that doesn't know what melee is. And you also don't give a shit about balance which you confirmed earlier, so what exactly is your point?

If you're going to say Snorkle has more experience than people and his experience trump everyone's argument, I'm gonna say Etup, Havoc, and many other players are far better players than Snorkle because they play HC and get #1 on HC routinely, and all say melee is in a bad spot compared to ranged.



The difference used to be not as big before because despite being able to scale your damage higher earlier on with spells, mob resistances used to actually be a thing. Now, you can reduce resistances all the way down to 0 or lower because of a bunch of stupid shit that has been added into the game, thus making spells in general the king of winning.



Also, attack builds in general are just not in a good spot, mostly RT attack builds. Bow and Wand attack builds are fine, they just require a ton of gear, however they are also when fully built up the fastest clearing builds in the game, capable of doing pretty much anything including Shaper at insane speeds.

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allbusiness wrote:

If you're going to say Snorkle has more experience than people and his experience trump everyone's argument, I'm gonna say Etup, Havoc, and many other players are far better players than Snorkle because they play HC and get #1 on HC routinely, and all say melee is in a bad spot compared to ranged.

Melee is in a bad spot compared to ranged at the very highest levels of play... but that doesn't seem like a fixable problem. I mean... is a melee build that is capable of clearing at this speed considered "true melee"? Maybe with Flicker or, because Tarille has clarified that for some odd reason, Melee Splash will always count as melee regardless of coverage, if Melee Splash had about 1500% more Area of Effect, then we would see melee not be in a bad spot compared to ranged at the highest level of play.

Also, the fact that melee is in a bad spot compared to ranged at the highest levels of play... doesn't exactly equate to "melee is trash?"

Are we not on equal grounds here, where "trash" is the smelly pile of stuff you throw away to the dumpster?

Also, are we forgetting that the original poster gave his opinion based in his own lack of ability to go past "t-11 t-12 range" "at least 15 exals on the build" and after that, we have posted videos of a melee build clearing T15 on 20c budget and 3 melee builds killing Chimera on (unknown) budget...? Doesn't this indicate that the thread title opinion is based on a lack of player ability, not game balance?

EDIT: By the way, I could be misreading the PM reply, but I think I've got clearance to repost this statement from tinko92 regarding trying Spell builds himself:

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tinko92 wrote:

I never follow any guide myself and I made a Tendrils (early levels) and Ball Lighting after that. It was piss easy. And that's self cast.
I eventually gave up at lvl 75 because I was bored to death with this ranged cheese. Unless you fuck up badly you won't die because you'll kill shit before it manages to damage you.

Fruz, this may aid you in deciding how much effort you're willing to put into this discussion.

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allbusiness wrote:

If you're going to say Snorkle has more experience than people and his experience trump everyone's argument, I'm gonna say Etup, Havoc, and many other players are far better players than Snorkle because they play HC and get #1 on HC routinely, and all say melee is in a bad spot compared to ranged.

Well of course... he's just trying to look smart as he can make melee "work" and hundreds of people cannot. Even if that's not what this is about at all.

He even proved it with his little videos there. Compare his videos and this one (first one I clicked on when I searched Youtube):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCDCrpXOfhc
And this is a wander, a relic that needs mega expensive gear to not suck, similar to melee. But it still beats the shit out of melee when both fully geared.


This is just a yet another feeding for the forum dweller so he can continue his daily routine.


Ranged characters are better than melee in every single aspect. Everyone beside the few forum dwellers acknowledges it.

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tinko92 wrote:

He even proved it with his little videos there. Compare his videos and this one (first one I clicked on when I searched Youtube):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCDCrpXOfhc
And this is a wander, a relic that needs mega expensive gear to not suck, similar to melee. But it still beats the shit out of melee when both fully geared.

Can you remind me what your proposed solution is? (solutions are?) I haven't popped into this thread for a while. Volatile Blood is one aspect that would be nice to have removed or adjusted, but surely this wouldn't fix the entire problem.

Volatile needs to be erased from the existence. I cannot relate in any way with the guy that made it. It's a blatant anti-melee mechanics that pushes people into ranged, as a bunch of other changes since beta are doing it.

Ranged characters should have to kite to compensate their range. This is just logic 101.

That doesn't exist in PoE. If anything, melee characters need to kite.


When you have that one basic thing completely twisted and broken, there really can't be any balance.


Well how would you mister wise-ass tinko solve that, eh???

Why don't they (ranged characters) have to kite? Because they kill screens of shit in one click before they could take damage.
What is the logical thing to change there? Increase the monster HP by a lot, and reduce the monster pack sizes all across the board (this would help with the performance as well).

When you get to the point where ranged characters cannot obliterate monsters before they manage to damage them, then you're on a good track. Now they will have to kite a bit to kill them. That will cripple the clear speed and bring it in line with melee.

With smaller packs and more life on them, Melee Splash in now a legit option. Also increase the damage output of actual melee skills.

Make some more changes accordingly, if needed.


This isn't some rocket science as some people would suggest. If they really wanted to balance out melee and ranged we wouldn't only get "this is a buff" idiocy and the later MELEE SPLASH BUFF.
And meanwhile they introduce a bunch of stuff that favors ranged and increases their power even more.


If they know how to make ranged that much better, they know how to make it worse.
And those who claim "melee can never be on par with ranged" are blinded by GGG's direction and they think this is the only way to go. How funny is that?

Melee builds are inferior to ranged builds because every monster is a threat to melee and this is not the case for ranged builds. Ranged builds can safely ignore too many mechanics. The way GGG should fix this is by making most content be as much of a threat to ranged as it is to melee. Izaro is a great example of this.

It is frustrating though to see bosses with the ability to do a lot of damage to melee through a single hit like tier 4 graveyard boss who can shotgun with his aoe for 5,000 or more damage easy peezy. Way to much of the content in the game is the slow moving only a threat to melee type. We need much more very fast moving, fast hitting type or at least have mechanics added that punish being ranged. This is not going to be a quick fix since it will take GGG time to do this but it is possible, Izaro proves it.

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tinko92 wrote:

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Peterlerock wrote:

If everybody uses his own definition of what is melee and what isn't, good luck for a "discussion".
Even if you don't like it, the only somewhat objective definition of melee in this game is: Everything that has a "melee" tag must be considered melee.

This is pure blindness. You're blinded by GGG's action of slapping melee tag on ranged skills. And you're ready to embrace those skills as real melee skills just because GGG slapped that tag on them.
They could slap the tag on Fireball tomorrow and you'd still agree on them.

Like a fanatic. It's pointless discussing melee with someone that doesn't know what melee is. And you also don't give a shit about balance which you confirmed earlier, so what exactly is your point?

Wtf is wrong with you?

How many pixels may I hit to count as melee? What if I say "half a screen", and you say "one third of a screen"? You're "more right" then, because your definition is "more melee"?

Lacerate is not "melee" according to some people in this thread. But, if I put conc effect on it, have I then turned my Lacerate into melee all of a sudden?
If I arbitrarily move into monsters' faces all the time even if I didn't need to, is my Lacerate considered "melee" then?

I'm swinging a freakin' melee weapon into monsters' faces and build around not having to kite or dodge, how's that not melee?

On my last Infernal Blow build, I could kill hundreds of monsters over several screens with one attack, given enough density. It's as "true melee" as it can get, walked right into packs and hit them, but it had huge AoE coverage... Melee? Yes? No?

Where's your magical line, your clear definition of what can be considered melee and what cannot? And how's that line more objective than the melee tag?

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Peterlerock wrote:

Wtf is wrong with you?

How many pixels may I hit to count as melee? What if I say "half a screen", and you say "one third of a screen"? You're "more right" then, because your definition is "more melee"?

Lacerate is not "melee" according to some people in this thread. But, if I put conc effect on it, have I then turned my Lacerate into melee all of a sudden?
If I arbitrarily move into monsters' faces all the time even if I didn't need to, is my Lacerate considered "melee" then?

I'm swinging a freakin' melee weapon into monsters' faces and build around not having to kite or dodge, how's that not melee?

On my last Infernal Blow build, I could kill hundreds of monsters over several screens with one attack, given enough density. It's as "true melee" as it can get, walked right into packs and hit them, but it had huge AoE coverage... Melee? Yes? No?

Where's your magical line, your clear definition of what can be considered melee and what cannot? And how's that line more objective than the melee tag?

With me? Dude, you're the one that cannot understand what melee is and your reasoning for X being melee is that GGG put the tag there, so it must be lmao

Go educate yourself on what's melee and what's ranged. You're like a broken record already. Just use the internet and learn something if you're even able to, when you're being told what's melee and what's ranged probably a multiple times now, and you still act as if nobody ever explained anything to you and you're basically playing dumb here.

I'm swinging my wand when I shoot them Fireballz, how is that not melee?
I'm swinging my arrows and bow while I'm trying to squeeze as many projectiles as I can, how is that not melee?

When I can empty whole rooms of monsters without stepping a foot in there, that is not melee. I never once hit any monster with my weapon. I'm basically killing shit with some kind of spells when I use Lacerate, Sunder, BF, etc.
My weapon never has to touch anything and I'll be killing stuff from more than a half a screen away, from a safe distance. That is not melee.


Do you even see what are you struggling with? I'm my opinion this is trivial knowledge. And if you're serious with this, then just lol
But I think you're just playing dumb while desperately trying to find any bit of an argument you can, because you got absolutely nothing besides this ridiculous bit.


Again, if GGG put melee tag on Fireball tomorrow you'd say "yup, Fireball has always been melee anyway, thanks GGG for finally making it official" lol
Because this particular bit is just too funny

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Everything that has a "melee" tag must be considered melee.