Juggernaught Accuracy thing worth it?

Since I don't think I really need the alternatives, I've been thinking about taking this weird +1000 Accuracy ascendancy, even though I plan to use RT (1 point for at least "5% more tooltip damage" when I reach 95 chance to hit).
I don't want to "build around this", I just want to see if it leads to any profit.

Let's do some calculations, or better "estimations", based on a tree for something that usually doesn't care about Accuracy, like 2h Axe melee...

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Let's first have a look at a tree with 7 points dedicated purely into accuracy, also taking nodes like "By the blade" and "Martial Experience", that I normally wouldn't take:
Click me

*about 1000 flat accuracy
*about 250 from Dexterity
*about 250 acc for being lvl 90
*about 200% accuracy for twohanded axes
*about 1500 flat acc for gloves, weapon, 2 rings, amulet with an average of +300 Acc
Devoto's AS is still higher than +400 Acc, even with percentage increase, so no helmet affix.

That's about 3000 Acc * (1+200%) = 9000 Accuracy = +45% Attackspeed.

If we add the additional accuracy support gem, we end up with about 64% Attackspeed (still feels wasted, +20% attackspeed is not worth a gem slot).

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Remove the 7 points spent into pure accuracy, take Berserking instead:
Click me
That's 18-6= +12% attackspeed, equal to 3000 Accuracy (I lost 6% raw AS in the templar nodes).
We drop to +100% accuracy, and lose a bit of flat dex (but also save 4 skillpoints!).

That's about 3000 * (1+100%) = 6000 Accuracy = 30% Attack speed (+12% from Berserking)

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Now let's Remove the two mediocre clusters as well.
Let's also pretend I don't go crazy on accuracy on gear, drop half of it.
This would be a "normal twohanded axe build that just happens to have a couple free suffixes for Acc and 2 spare ascendancy points".
click me
(I just removed 6 points that I would put into "Combat Stamina" etc)

1000 Acc
+800 on gear
+400 (levels, dex)
+65% Accuracy (tree)

2200 * (1+65%) =~3600 Accuracy = 18% Attack speed

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Conclusion?
Somehow worth it?

Use Path of Builder for calculations. Also take into account that several weapon types will gain a flat bonus to accuracy in 2.6. In general accuracy is an underrated stat that is very good. However if you are not going for crit RT is superior.

About time someone actually revisited this topic.

There was a very old thread somewhere that discussed the build known as the "Hummingbird" build. It basically took the Undeniable Node and abused it to hell.

I actually did the build this league. What it really amounts to is that you grab as many accuracy nodes as possible and stack accuracy everywhere you can. If you want to, you can combine this with the Obscurantis and use a Projectile melee skill (Frost Blades, Lightning Strikes, Molten Strike, etc) for a more powerful boost.

In essence, what it does is that it gives you absurd attack speed. My build was incomplete, and on average I could get 13+ attacks per second. I could've pushed for max attack speed and reached around 18-20 attacks per second, but instead I went for damage optimization. I think the theoretical build I chose ended up with around 22k Accuracy.

With optimal gear, this can lead to some really ridiculous numbers; on Path of Building, I was able to pull of a multi-million DPS Molten Strike, and this is with Path of Building not factoring stuff like Point Blank, Flasks, etc.

If you ARENT doing the Hummingbird, the Undeniable node isn't the worst thing in the world, but it isn't one of the nodes most people aim for. If you have RT, it's already half useless. You'll just get a bit of attack speed from the given passive. Most people will just go for Unstoppable, Unflinching + Unrelenting, and a choice of the last 3. Most will go for Unbreakable, as not being able to be stunned is fantastic. Unyielding is weird and rarely used. Undeniable is mainly for people who didn't go RT.

But yeah.

If you want to, the character in my profile is ForgotToBalls.

None of the gear is properly optimized, but I made the best of what I had. I could've forgo defenses to reach the max attack speed and stuff, but I chose not to.

@Frankenberry
Don't think you even understood my question.
(and I know what accuracy is good for usually)

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Sentilial wrote:

If you ARENT doing the Hummingbird, the Undeniable node isn't the worst thing in the world, but it isn't one of the nodes most people aim for.

Just checking my options...
I want the EC and "all the EC at once".
I want the movespeed, because movespeed is great.
That's 6 points.
Running around with over 200% increased life and permanent 8 EC, I just don't think I really need double armor from my chest piece. Nor do I need an increased fortify effect.

So I wondered if there is any benefit from Undeniable, if I don't go crazy on accuracy (aka don't go "Humming Bird").
Calculations say: It's fine, but nothing too special.
I'll get something like a free mid-level faster attacks gem. Right?

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If you have RT, it's already half useless.

Maybe it's the other way around, RT is pretty much useless then.

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None of the gear is properly optimized, but I made the best of what I had. I could've forgo defenses to reach the max attack speed and stuff, but I chose not to.

Your tree looks horrible. Scattered all over the place, a lot of wasted skillpoints.
And I'd want at least 30% more life on a melee build. And you forgot one accuracy cluster, next to point blank. Closer and way more point-efficient than the one at templar. ;-)

Maybe a layout like this for a "humming bird"?
(probably doesn't really matter, skill tree will change in a week)

I was too lazy to read your original post for now, but I use Jugg's accuracy thing on my one and only Jugg, and it works pretty well. Like Frankenberry mentioned, it's more useful for Crit, and my Jugg builds for Crit (although probably inoptimally). I use Abyssus, plus:

Works pretty well. I got the exact same Jugg nodes as you want to, so I skip double-armour and I skip buffed Fortify. Even skipping double-armour, The Brass Dome is OP and allows me to reach 35k Armour, which is more than enough for my purposes so far. Buffed Fortify would make me more tanky, but even at 8 Endurance Charges I feel hecka tanky the vast majority of the time.

I think there only little point in getting lots of accuracy if you are not going crit

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adghar wrote:

I was too lazy to read your original post for now

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Ludvator wrote:

I think there only little point in getting lots of accuracy if you are not going crit

Again, the question here is not:
What is Accuracy usually good for?
Obviously for crit. Thank you.

The question is:
On a non-crit build, I have 2 remaining ascendancy points.
Is the 5% AS / 1000 Accuracy conversion useful?
Maybe more useful than stacking more armour/fortify effect?

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Peterlerock wrote:

Again, the question here is not:
What is Accuracy usually good for?
Obviously for crit. Thank you.

If the question is "What is Accuracy good for other than crit?" then the common wisdom is "very little."

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Is the 5% AS / 1000 Accuracy conversion useful?

If I were building non-crit, (this includes non-Elemental Overload) I would grab RT and skip this node in favour of the Buffed Fortfiy node.

Otherwise I would grab the node and be lazy with accuracy if I were building Elemental Overload.

Are you not using fortify at all? Because the improved fortify node also grants something like 35% increased damage while you have fortify, so as long as you are leapslamming/shield charging into a pack and proccing fortify it will also boost your damage, possibly more than any attack speed from the accuracy conversion

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Peterlerock wrote:

@Frankenberry
Don't think you even understood my question.
(and I know what accuracy is good for usually)

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Sentilial wrote:

If you ARENT doing the Hummingbird, the Undeniable node isn't the worst thing in the world, but it isn't one of the nodes most people aim for.

Just checking my options...
I want the EC and "all the EC at once".
I want the movespeed, because movespeed is great.
That's 6 points.
Running around with over 200% increased life and permanent 8 EC, I just don't think I really need double armor from my chest piece. Nor do I need an increased fortify effect.

So I wondered if there is any benefit from Undeniable, if I don't go crazy on accuracy (aka don't go "Humming Bird").
Calculations say: It's fine, but nothing too special.
I'll get something like a free mid-level faster attacks gem. Right?

"

If you have RT, it's already half useless.

Maybe it's the other way around, RT is pretty much useless then.

"

None of the gear is properly optimized, but I made the best of what I had. I could've forgo defenses to reach the max attack speed and stuff, but I chose not to.

Your tree looks horrible. Scattered all over the place, a lot of wasted skillpoints.
And I'd want at least 30% more life on a melee build. And you forgot one accuracy cluster, next to point blank. Closer and way more point-efficient than the one at templar. ;-)

Maybe a layout like this for a "humming bird"?
(probably doesn't really matter, skill tree will change in a week)

There's a difference between forgetting the cluster and choosing not to get it during that leveling phase. I already have 3 versions of the full build planned out long ago based on different weapons. The whole point of the build was to me to get as much attack speed as possible from the tree via Unrelenting. Also, you choosing to have 30% more life than me is your own opinion. I am perfectly fine with ~150% or so life. I decided to stop working on that character when I got my gear for the Endless Retch.

The build isnt meant to be top tier. It was purely a gimmick build to see how much attack speed I could get. I scrapped half of the idea midway and went to see how much damage I could've gotten out of using the Obscurantis. Had they not nerf Undeniable before it's release, then I'm sure I would've been able to reach 25+ attacks per second.

Also, the Hummingbird idea isnt mine. It belongs to TheSaddestSong.

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Grimmhammer wrote:

Are you not using fortify at all? Because the improved fortify node also grants something like 35% increased damage while you have fortify, so as long as you are leapslamming/shield charging into a pack and proccing fortify it will also boost your damage, possibly more than any attack speed from the accuracy conversion

35% increased Damage isn't really impressive. Had it been 35% MORE Damage, that'd be a whole different story. There are very few builds that take Unyielding.