I want to love POE... please let me be a filthy casual.

"

KAJed wrote:

You are correct, pulling numbers out of my arse would be silly. Also, be careful the way you word this statement. It would not cost money to make this change. What we are talking about has exactly zero cost investment from their end: the ability to reset skills is already there.

Instead what we're talking about is a potential shift in revenue sources. So, since I don't have any actual numbers to prove this... as there aren't many games that have made this kind of switch... I can point to similar games like D3 that have gained far more footing that POE ever has. Now... of course D2 was wildly popular and used this hardcore methodology in the beginning, but MOST gamers have changed. What worked then doesn't work as well now.

Take a look at the games that are available these days. Take a look at series that have been ongoing for a long time even. Take a look at the way they are played. Take a look at the way they've evolved and those features that have changed over the years and you'll find that this is one of the things that has changed significantly over the years.

The unfortunate truth is that mass market beats a small dedicated lot every time. Now, I think POE is amazing as is... but this is a massive barrier. It still will likely never be as popular as D3 and not just because of the name but also because it still takes a person with some creativity to play this game and enjoy it due to the way they've designed the skill system. But I still think the number of players and potential revenue goes up not down by opening this door.

"

Xtorma wrote:

Being a developer, you should know that what you are asking costs money. so your first order of the day should be justifying the cost. Show some solid numbers that will prove that the cost to benefit ratio will be favorable to the company. As a developer, I am sure you are more than aware that pulling any numbers out of your ass will only hurt your cause.

I don't believe you are a developer now . It would cost money because you are asking for a separate league. Resources would have to be allocated to balance it, administer it, etc... Because you are asking for an advantage, the devs would also have to restrict after league migration, which would also cost resources. It would have been much easier for you just to ask for more frequent regret orb drops, but even that would effect the economy as each currency orb has settled into a hierarchy dependent on their relative drop rates.

bottom-line is , if you don't have the time or intelligence to pre-plan your build, and execute your plan, then this may not be the game for you.

"

Xtorma wrote:

I don't believe you are a developer now . It would cost money because you are asking for a separate league. Resources would have to be allocated to balance it, administer it, etc... Because you are asking for an advantage, the devs would also have to restrict after league migration, which would also cost resources. It would have been much easier for you just to ask for more frequent regret orb drops, but even that would effect the economy as each currency orb has settled into a hierarchy dependent on their relative drop rates.

bottom-line is , if you don't have the time or intelligence to pre-plan your build, and execute your plan, then this may not be the game for you.

Oh my dear lord, yes, from a resource standpoint there is a cost. But what is that cost? I was talking about development costs. However, that being said, neither you nor I know the cost of running a single league that way.

Also, any developer worth his salt would have configured the league drop to work like this:

"WhereToDropAfterEnd: Standard" which would be configurable on their end. Given what a job they've done on server performance and configuration...I'm going to say that's a non-issue.

I have been a developer for 13 years. So... yes I have a great deal of knowledge on the subject. But hey, if a random forum user wants to believe they know more about game development than I do... go right ahead.

Your last line further points out why I dislike this community... it is full of elitists. Just because someone plays games differently than you does not make them stupid. But again... by all means resort to name-calling now.

"

Xtorma wrote:

bottom-line is , if you don't have the time or intelligence to pre-plan your build, and execute your plan, then this may not be the game for you.

Edit:

Seriously though, I was thinking of playing PoE, it looks fun and all, but I just want to sit back and play a game every now and then. I don't want to have to worry about ruining my whole character if I put a skill point in the wrong spot because I didn't look it up online before hand.

I played Launch Maple Story, I played Vanilla WoW, I played the everliving fuck out of D2, I did my time, I just want to play a game... and the comments here from people who have all the time in the world to play it is largely disheartening. I agree with the need for a respec option.

"

KAJed wrote:

"

Xtorma wrote:

I don't believe you are a developer now . It would cost money because you are asking for a separate league. Resources would have to be allocated to balance it, administer it, etc... Because you are asking for an advantage, the devs would also have to restrict after league migration, which would also cost resources. It would have been much easier for you just to ask for more frequent regret orb drops, but even that would effect the economy as each currency orb has settled into a hierarchy dependent on their relative drop rates.

bottom-line is , if you don't have the time or intelligence to pre-plan your build, and execute your plan, then this may not be the game for you.

Oh my dear lord, yes, from a resource standpoint there is a cost. But what is that cost? I was talking about development costs. However, that being said, neither you nor I know the cost of running a single league that way.

Also, any developer worth his salt would have configured the league drop to work like this:

"WhereToDropAfterEnd: Standard" which would be configurable on their end. Given what a job they've done on server performance and configuration...I'm going to say that's a non-issue.

I have been a developer for 13 years. So... yes I have a great deal of knowledge on the subject. But hey, if a random forum user wants to believe they know more about game development than I do... go right ahead.

Your last line further points out why I dislike this community... it is full of elitists. Just because someone plays games differently than you does not make them stupid. But again... by all means resort to name-calling now.

How does playing the game "differently" cause you to not be able to pre-plan and execute your builds? This is the way the game is designed. I thought you were a game designer? Do you even have builds? or do you just go with whatever you feel like choosing when you gain a skill point? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that's stupid in the context of this game, and I don't see that changing.

So where would you dump your fresh new league? You can't dump it to standard, because you have a clear advantage. You would need an entirely separate dump league, which...once again...costs money to maintain. you can't just dump it anywhere, there is an economy to consider, even in the dump league. It's why we have 2 separate dump leagues. you can migrate from hardcore to standard, because hardcore plays at a disadvantage, but you can't dump from standard to hardcore.

I don't have to know the cost, only that there will be one. I am not the one trying to make the case for a new (unnecessary) league.

Lots of people claim to be game developers on message boards. It's hard to separate the liars from those telling the truth. As far as name calling. it is what it is. if you can not plan and execute a workable build then you have issues, as literally thousands of people do it every league with little problems. perhaps you don't lack intelligence, perhaps you are just lazy. you seem to think there should be no consequences to your choices, and that makes me doubt your credentials, as that is not the way the game is designed.

"

KAJed wrote:

except people like me who have kids and little time can't simply restart a character every time I screw up a passive tree choice.

I'm not going to say any of the things you have listed in your post. However, I will say that I have a friend that has 2 kids, a wife, a full-time job and still can get to end game in almost every league.

Why do you think he can do this? Because he plans. He uses offline planners to plan out his skill tree and gem selections so when he DOES play...he can be more efficient and not have to worry about the "i took the wrong passive" issues that may arise.

Take this time between leagues to start planning out potential characters. If the skill tree or balance changes happen, the patch notes gives you about 3 days before the league goes live to plan out a build you want to play.

That is plenty of time and will allow you to not feel this way.

Please don't try and influence a change in a game that you don't have time to play. You not having time doesn't mean everyone that is successful at POE is a no-life, streamer.

We have wives and kids and day jobs as well. You play with what you can and get as far as you can and oh yeah... HAVE FUN.

If your next argument is "I don't want to plan out a build because it makes POE feel like a job"... well to that i say tough tits, mate.

There is a lot of stuff I don't have time for, but I wouldn't want them to change this game for it. I feel like people have to hide behind their kids and "real lives" as why they are bad at the game.

PLAN a build out. You'll be fine.

EDIT: Oh and the fact that people that disagree with you are "elitists" goes to show how immature your mindset is when it comes to this game. This game requires knowledge (which you may not have yet). Your characters will suck at first...but every subsequent one you make will be that much better.

"

Orangenova wrote:

"

Xtorma wrote:

bottom-line is , if you don't have the time or intelligence to pre-plan your build, and execute your plan, then this may not be the game for you.

Edit:

Seriously though, I was thinking of playing PoE, it looks fun and all, but I just want to sit back and play a game every now and then. I don't want to have to worry about ruining my whole character if I put a skill point in the wrong spot because I didn't look it up online before hand.

I played Launch Maple Story, I played Vanilla WoW, I played the everliving fuck out of D2, I did my time, I just want to play a game... and the comments here from people who have all the time in the world to play it is largely disheartening. I agree with the need for a respec option.

Nice meme, although I would think twice about putting a pic of yourself online for all to see. Remember...the internet is forever. There are plenty of respec options, they simply require you to play the game, but are completely unnecessary if you are even the least bit intelligent.

If it's Elitist to play the game the way it was designed, then there are a whole lot of elitists running around in every game.

Requiring a game to make you spend hours researching before playing is not good practice in general. Usually what happens is that most people can JUST play the game and it works fine. Outliers will do theorycrafting. Of course with POE that doesn't work quite so well since, as you pointed out, you can't just dump points willy nilly. But here's the thing... you could. If you could just choose what makes sense at the time and backtrack later that would be perfectly fine. It is only you permanency zealots that are so attached to this idea that you shouldn't be able to.

In the context of this game... that actually works really well. It lets you learn by doing and testing instead of listening to what some neckbeard on the internet says to do. Learning by doing > learning by being told.

Perhaps I should stop calling it a League so that you can stop being so confused... what I'm proposing is an alternative to standard. As in they both exist at the same time. No one would dump from Casual to anywhere.

And yes, there is a cost to running the bare metal for a permanent Casual-Standard. However, except for an ever growing population, it behaves exactly the same as them having any single league. Someone from the dev team would have to pipe in to have any idea how much processing that actually takes as I'm not up on just what their configurations are.

It is actually quite amusing listening to you try to find reasons to question that I'm a developer based on things like "if you don't even make builds you can't be a developer". Go on, bring me down!

"

Xtorma wrote:

How does playing the game "differently" cause you to not be able to pre-plan and execute your builds? This is the way the game is designed. I thought you were a game designer? Do you even have builds? or do you just go with whatever you feel like choosing when you gain a skill point? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that's stupid in the context of this game, and I don't see that changing.

So where would you dump your fresh new league? You can't dump it to standard, because you have a clear advantage. You would need an entirely separate dump league, which...once again...costs money to maintain. you can't just dump it anywhere, there is an economy to consider, even in the dump league. It's why we have 2 separate dump leagues. you can migrate from hardcore to standard, because hardcore plays at a disadvantage, but you can't dump from standard to hardcore.

I don't have to know the cost, only that there will be one. I am not the one trying to make the case for a new (unnecessary) league.

Lots of people claim to be game developers on message boards. It's hard to separate the liars from those telling the truth. As far as name calling. it is what it is. if you can not plan and execute a workable build then you have issues, as literally thousands of people do it every league with little problems. perhaps you don't lack intelligence, perhaps you are just lazy. you seem to think there should be no consequences to your choices, and that makes me doubt your credentials, as that is not the way the game is designed.

"

Xtorma wrote:

Nice meme, although I would think twice about putting a pic of yourself online for all to see. Remember...the internet is forever. There are plenty of respec options, they simply require you to play the game, but are completely unnecessary if you are even the least bit intelligent.

If it's Elitist to play the game the way it was designed, then there are a whole lot of elitists running around in every game.

Spicy burn, I'll remember that every person who posts a meme is literally that person.

Also if a game is perfect the way it's designed the first time, why patch it? Why change anything? Why not just be an elitist shit about the game being flawless and that way of playing being the literally only correct way ever-ever.

No, I point out that people are elitist because the response is always the same: "do it my way or don't do it all"

Everyone is very quick to say "the integrity of the game will suffer!"... to which I say "it's possible, but unlikely".

Read the arguments I'm getting and how quickly it deteriorates on their end and you will see what I mean.

And you're right, some people can find the time between kids and family and everything else. I cannot, but I would still love to play and enjoy that time instead of spending the time planning constantly. The game is fun in it's own right without having this as a burden to bear.

Also...I don't really participate in the league events, but when I do I DO take the time to plan out which build I plan on using for it. I'm talking specifically about Standard in this case.

"

EDIT: Oh and the fact that people that disagree with you are "elitists" goes to show how immature your mindset is when it comes to this game. This game requires knowledge (which you may not have yet). Your characters will suck at first...but every subsequent one you make will be that much better.

"

KAJed wrote:

Requiring a game to make you spend hours researching before playing is not good practice in general. Usually what happens is that most people can JUST play the game and it works fine. Outliers will do theorycrafting. Of course with POE that doesn't work quite so well since, as you pointed out, you can't just dump points willy nilly. But here's the thing... you could. If you could just choose what makes sense at the time and backtrack later that would be perfectly fine. It is only you permanency zealots that are so attached to this idea that you shouldn't be able to.

In the context of this game... that actually works really well. It lets you learn by doing and testing instead of listening to what some neckbeard on the internet says to do. Learning by doing > learning by being told.

Perhaps I should stop calling it a League so that you can stop being so confused... what I'm proposing is an alternative to standard. As in they both exist at the same time. No one would dump from Casual to anywhere.

And yes, there is a cost to running the bare metal for a permanent Casual-Standard. However, except for an ever growing population, it behaves exactly the same as them having any single league. Someone from the dev team would have to pipe in to have any idea how much processing that actually takes as I'm not up on just what their configurations are.

It is actually quite amusing listening to you try to find reasons to question that I'm a developer based on things like "if you don't even make builds you can't be a developer". Go on, bring me down!

"

Xtorma wrote:

How does playing the game "differently" cause you to not be able to pre-plan and execute your builds? This is the way the game is designed. I thought you were a game designer? Do you even have builds? or do you just go with whatever you feel like choosing when you gain a skill point? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that's stupid in the context of this game, and I don't see that changing.

So where would you dump your fresh new league? You can't dump it to standard, because you have a clear advantage. You would need an entirely separate dump league, which...once again...costs money to maintain. you can't just dump it anywhere, there is an economy to consider, even in the dump league. It's why we have 2 separate dump leagues. you can migrate from hardcore to standard, because hardcore plays at a disadvantage, but you can't dump from standard to hardcore.

I don't have to know the cost, only that there will be one. I am not the one trying to make the case for a new (unnecessary) league.

Lots of people claim to be game developers on message boards. It's hard to separate the liars from those telling the truth. As far as name calling. it is what it is. if you can not plan and execute a workable build then you have issues, as literally thousands of people do it every league with little problems. perhaps you don't lack intelligence, perhaps you are just lazy. you seem to think there should be no consequences to your choices, and that makes me doubt your credentials, as that is not the way the game is designed.

The fact that you are given free respect points, and that respect orbs are a currency type within the game pretty much says to me that planning your build beforehand is integral to the game design philosophy for this game. I am starting to believe that you just are not far enough into the game to realize this.