[Balance] What issues the design/balance team has to take a look at/keep an eye on it (constructive)

Good recap of the issues being discussed since monthes in these forums.

It wont be easy to fix all that. Therefore I suggest to go for some short term fixes and a long term overhaul of the whole leech/damage/reflect system and scaling.



It is quite stupid to play PoE on life. It is like playing with handicap.

I am pretty sure in the long run instant leech has to go but sooner solutions for the upcoming seasons are required.

The sad thing is, that 80% of the community agrees with 80% of your points (yes, two numbers pulled out of my ass to make a point), but very few(~none?) will get serious work put into them. Why? Well, simply put; It seems more "lucrative" to just push out new, "power creep'd" content. A lot of people/players are no more than sheep; as long as we hear "more", "new" and "hype", we follow like, well, sheep. Me included, to a certain degree. BAA!

Back in the days, we could see GGG tags on threads pretty often, where they took part in certain discussions. Now, when we see those tags, it's either to shut us up, or to correct us if we're wrong on certain subjects - or, as we all know, move our threads. Can someone please guide me to the last GGG post on a player-made balance thread? It's not that I just understand, i just think it's sad. Very sad.

I'm starting to realize that they WANT an unbalanced game. They WANT to "force" us into a certain build each major patch. They WANT melee to be the lesser option. They WANT old skills to be just a memory of past days.

I dont think thats the intention to play make all players play the same build ppl would get bored just as it is right now.

There is a lot unbalances in the game Range vs melee, live vs es, bladevortex vs the rest

In general all build should be viable for all types of content not with the same easy some builds will always have advantages and disadvantages against others, but the difference should be way smaller then it is right now.

And for my point of view there are certain uniques that completly bust out other options with no exception.

As example skyforth takes place in a loot of builds that utilizes powercharge generation im using them too because every other unique option is pretty much worse. Why even creating other boots when you get a valyrium, free power charge generation and reduced mana reservation with 30% ms with not realy a downside? (And now please dont say no life regen on that side of the tree no build is going for sustain trough life regeneration.) The mod cannot leech life or mana would be a downside that would force you to completly change the build with taking a shitload of manaregen nodes or liferegen may even use some unused gems like vitality since they have now new mtx available or utilizing other uniques.
The same is with Atziris Acuity a - 8% global critchance will be a good exchange for getting instant leech if you play a critbuild and want to save points on the tree you have to give up a lot of crit.

The majority of uniques are that are strong whre build with some downsides to have a tradoff balance you get something, but you have to give up something for it.
So why getting away from this way and making items that strong that some builds that are already overscaled in the full spectrum getting a even higher advantage and pretty much destroying all other builds or gems.

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

If build properly, Slayer class easily deals with all drawbacks of "slow hits" (regarding to life leech) and "recovery" (he doesnt even need to not get hit for that, unlike ES). My Slayer is almost invincible to non-oneshot damage, even if he isnt attacking enemies at the moment. But like all life characters, his HP pool makes him exposed to oneshots, especially elemental ones.

i thought that as well until i realized just how strong the 'less regen'/'no regen' map affixes are. all these thousands of potential HP points stored to be regenerated in next few MINUTES are of no use to anyone when you are already dead

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sidtherat wrote:

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

If build properly, Slayer class easily deals with all drawbacks of "slow hits" (regarding to life leech) and "recovery" (he doesnt even need to not get hit for that, unlike ES). My Slayer is almost invincible to non-oneshot damage, even if he isnt attacking enemies at the moment. But like all life characters, his HP pool makes him exposed to oneshots, especially elemental ones.

i thought that as well until i realized just how strong the 'less regen'/'no regen' map affixes are. all these thousands of potential HP points stored to be regenerated in next few MINUTES are of no use to anyone when you are already dead

I think you are confusing no regen with cannot leech life from monsters. No regen maps are free packsize for most leech slayers.

just nerf that vinktar to 5% light dmg leeched as life and remove instant leech even for legacy one

leave vaal pact as it is but add leech apply at 40% value with non-melee skills ( or make it 60% for melee skills but buff blood rage to 2% leech or physical leech in some way )



how many melee builds did kill the shaper? most are spell buils or ranged

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sidtherat wrote:

i thought that as well until i realized just how strong the 'less regen'/'no regen' map affixes are. all these thousands of potential HP points stored to be regenerated in next few MINUTES are of no use to anyone when you are already dead

No regen hardly matters.
Less recovery does implies a serious penalty, but i'm ok with it. It's still doable (unlike no leech or BM for CI).


Edit:
About Vessel of Vinktar. I think, there is clear hint to how it should be nerfed. Just make it so self-shock from Vessel of Vinktar persists through shock immunity. So, anyone who will use this flask, will have his HP pool cut in 1/3, and that's pretty significant downside. I actually believe it was intentded by item designer, but then fucked by GGG and PoE immunity mechanics...

Added a whole essay about skill and support gem design and balance today - thank you for all the input!


Regarding some comments about leech i have the following to say:

Not everyone is taking Vaal Pact/wears Atziri's Acuity or is playing a Duelist Slayer.

Slayer has great leech and doesn't really need vaal pact in almost all cases to do a great job relying on leech. But there is nothing even compareable out there which isn't gated by this ascendancy class. Also when you take the reflect mechanic into account: not everyone is playing Slayer or Elementalist.

We have to look at the whole spectrum of leech here.


@TheLockedGuy
Live VS ES is one thing and chaos damage is another. Chaos Innoculation is a defensive keystone which augments full ES playstyles greatly. It is a unique playstyle created by a keystone.

While i agree that chaos immunity is srtong (and yes immunities are stupid imho, even player immunities to damage not only monster immunities), there are many ways to deal with chaos damage in this game, especially for a low life character wearing shavs.

- stacking chaos resist
- getting a Leo craft "x% reduced DoT" (for DoT chaos damage which is the most common form)
- %life regen / Zealots Oath
- block/dodge/avoidance


(for non shav users)

- Coruscating Elixir
- Corrupted Energy unique jewel
- taking and building a little around the MoM keystone

You see, there are many ways the problem can be dealt with - you just have to make the investment.

Wait what? On one side you say Life vs ES is imbalanced and on the other hand you say that the game is too easy?
There is not really a ranged vs melee "problem". Melee can clear as fast as ranged. The problems are the defensive mechanics in the current game. At the moment for high tier mapping there's only one "safe" option namely CI. The damage is way over the top in high level maps it's ridiculous. At the current state the end game is balanced around CI with Vinktars. The funny thing with BV as one of the safest and fastest builds in the game atm is that it is actually a "melee" skill. The diffence is as a melee char you usually build a life char. So you have to invest way more into defence.

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sidtherat wrote:

Yet i just think stuff like Power Siphon vs Kinetic Blast should never happen. Power Siphon was perfectly fine skill when KB got released. Since then noone is using anything but KB. Why? because KB is simply 5 times stronger (+the Frost Wall cheeze that you can still mimic with other stuff).

What makes KB so strong? It's ability to 'explode' on each hit. Fireball, Arctic Breath, Explosive Arrow - these ALL deal damage when piercing/chaining but they do not 'trigger'. Why KB triggers on chain/pierce? This type of GLARING inconsistency makes balance even harder to do. Does KB REALLY need this cast once deal damage multiple times thing? REALLY?

Just make KB 'explode' only once and youll have an interesting choice to make when selecting a skill to use. Currently there is ZERO choice. ZERO.

You have to be kidding? Power Siphon was horrible unless you had insane gear. Gimping KB the way you suggest would be the last nail in the coffin for wanders.

I wonder why people still waste their time in meaningless suggestions and useless feedback.

The current state of the game is what ggg want, and what they can. It's also the intentional meta shifts and imbalances, selling the MTX.

Just stop it already and either play the game as is, or find another one to fuck you better.
It's one and the same in years, getting fucking annoying.
Value your time.