How to fix Arc (Single target that is)

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SuperMotte wrote:

How is Instruments of Virtue supposed to work?

Leap slam/whirling blades + spell.

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Fruz wrote:

With the recent power creep .... It possible to have 4L setup powerful enough to reach a correct or good clear speed I think.

Some items provide an extra support to have a pseudo 5L too.

Or essences that give stuff like 30% more elemental damage or 20% more cast and attack speed in certain items. Also it is often fairly easy to just switch one gem. On a ranger you can switch Split Arrow for Barrage and basically keep most of the other things. If weapon swapping would allow to swap skills entirely you could even weapon swap to a second setup, which would be the best solution.

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SuperMotte wrote:

No. Use another skill instead of spamming a single one for every scenario in the game.

And which skill would you suggest? It has to be spamable, on a 4L max and based on lightning damage?

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zSavage wrote:

Simple idea I had while listening to LNB, PT, and Hege talking about skills that need love on the last podcast.

Increase the amount of damage Arc does to the first target it hits. (like, say 50% more damage to first target hit)

This would reward players for picking the monster they want to focus down (like a rare in a pack or a specific boss monster) and help significantly when facing just a boss, without making the skill bonkers for clearing trash.

Thoughts?

-Savage

I like the idea myself. I WANT to play arc but it's ridiculous how bad single target is.

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greatwhitepine wrote:

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SuperMotte wrote:

No. Use another skill instead of spamming a single one for every scenario in the game.

And which skill would you suggest? It has to be spamable, on a 4L max and based on lightning damage?

I think I would try Ball Lightning - Spell Echo - Lightning Penetration - Controlled Destruction, plus Vaal Storm Call somewhere.

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SunsetVista wrote:

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greatwhitepine wrote:

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SuperMotte wrote:

No. Use another skill instead of spamming a single one for every scenario in the game.

And which skill would you suggest? It has to be spamable, on a 4L max and based on lightning damage?

I think I would try Ball Lightning - Spell Echo - Lightning Penetration - Controlled Destruction, plus Vaal Storm Call somewhere.

BL sucks on bosses as well, not to mention 4l. Arc is good when boss spams minions, but some bosses don't and then you have a huge problem. Maybe just put storm call on second set with some cheap 5l staff +2 lightning skills. Less Duration-Spell Echo-Concentrated Effect-Lightning Penetration. Press X on emergency :P

A few points here:

1. Most casters who use lightning spells like Arc want to use a dagger or a wand (perhaps dual wield, or weapon + shield). This limits you to one main skill setup (as you can only get one 5L). A skill like Arc (unless in a specific setup, see below) needs 4 or 5 supports to be effective for pack clear and thus demands the main link.

2. Arc is strictly worse than just about every other Lightning Spell for single target (its OK if the boss spawns ads). Other skills (like Storm Call) can match its pack clear speed and do far better single target DPS. Therefore, there is no real reason to use Arc aside from it being a triggered skill due to its autotargetting nature.

3. Arc can be effective in a 4L for pack clearing, but you need a +1 gems item (like Geofri's Crest or the Vertex) with Arc + Spell Echo + Lightning Pen + Empower. Then you're free to use another skill for single target. But the issue is a 5 or 6L lightning skill that is better at single target will match or beat the Arc setup for pack clear (ie Storm Call), thus rendering the setup redundant to begin with.

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greatwhitepine wrote:

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SuperMotte wrote:

No. Use another skill instead of spamming a single one for every scenario in the game.

And which skill would you suggest? It has to be spamable, on a 4L max and based on lightning damage?

This is why the single 6L system is bad design. 2H weapon (w/o Kaom's) or kiss skill diversity goodbye.

I'd be all about a support gem which allows gems in a 1H or shield to support gems in the other 1H, plus nerfing 2H weapons to 5L max. Give players a 5L and a 6L (plus no 6L possibility with Kaom's) and you've got some meaningful choices to make.

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zSavage wrote:

A few points here:
1. Most casters who use lightning spells like Arc want to use a dagger or a wand (perhaps dual wield, or weapon + shield). This limits you to one main skill setup (as you can only get one 5L). A skill like Arc (unless in a specific setup, see below) needs 4 or 5 supports to be effective for pack clear and thus demands the main link.

2. Arc is strictly worse than just about every other Lightning Spell for single target (its OK if the boss spawns ads). Other skills (like Storm Call) can match its pack clear speed and do far better single target DPS. Therefore, there is no real reason to use Arc aside from it being a triggered skill due to its autotargetting nature.

3. Arc can be effective in a 4L for pack clearing, but you need a +1 gems item (like Geofri's Crest or the Vertex) with Arc + Spell Echo + Lightning Pen + Empower. Then you're free to use another skill for single target. But the issue is a 5 or 6L lightning skill that is better at single target will match or beat the Arc setup for pack clear (ie Storm Call), thus rendering the setup redundant to begin with.

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Gosen wrote:

BL sucks on bosses as well, not to mention 4l. Arc is good when boss spams minions, but some bosses don't and then you have a huge problem. Maybe just put storm call on second set with some cheap 5l staff +2 lightning skills. Less Duration-Spell Echo-Concentrated Effect-Lightning Penetration. Press X on emergency :P

Yep, been playing with it and any boss I've tried at T12+ having elemental/lightning resists is painfully slow to clear. I have ball lightning in my boots and I can't move it anywhere (cospri's + 3 curses). I'm still determined to try and make this work though so next I'm gonna try a vinktar's (+10% pen). And maybe I'll move ball lightning into the helm to make it a pseudo 5l though not sure how bad that will affect my overall clear speed.

Personally, I'm using triple arc totem hierophant in a vertex (adds 20% pen). I highly doubt, in my case, that storm call would be faster clear speed. My clear speed is amazing! BTW someone on the forums did the math and empower is not actually better than faster casting in this setup. My 5l is in a cospris and I need it to cast warlord's mark, temp chains and enfeeble which I'm not prepared to drop at this time. But it's starting to look like I might have to.

Good thread! Lots of ideas... but I want my build to work just because the clear speed is so high and I really enjoy the triple totems and not playing meta. :-)

I just dismantled my ancestral chieftan build even though it handles bosses way better... it's really slow clear speed compared to triple arc totem.

If all else fails I'm hoping one of the channeling skills is gonna fix this properly for me so I can keep the totems in the helm.

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SuperMotte wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Most builds want a 5-6 link setup, unless you go 2 handed attack, benefit greatly from staves or can go bow (which more people can now with essences) then the most 6 link setup you can have is 1 for quite a lot of builds. By nature having a 4 link is not enough for most of the higher content, in terms of single target damage, so the conclusion can easily be made that the game encourages the use of one skill gem setup.

Or maybe encouraging to get a 2h weapon or just live without a 2nd 6L. 4L single target to weak? Then use a 6L single target and put your multitarget in a 4L.

Why do that, when you can simply pick skill that is good against packs, too? Or just get something with AoE, for general clear have Increased Area of Effect, and for bosses switch to Conc Effect? This is a thing now. Nobody is going to use 4L setup to clear their T15 maps - give me a fucking break.

I'm not sure if you listened to the podcast, but they explained what is the problem with Arc exactly, and thus OP's suggestion makes a lot of sense.