Death Penalties

This thread is nothing more than people arguing about their opinion on the subject of experience loss on death from the two pages I have looked at, while none of their opinions matter as an individual, only as a whole, to GGG. Instead of arguing with each other, you can try to accept the fact that you are all playing the same game and you all like and dislike different parts of it. It's stupid to argue about.

Anyone saying dying should have no penalty is wrong. What that penalty is, should be based on the time it takes to gain experience and the end game areas. And server quality doesn't help this matter at all currently.

Anyone saying the penalty is good how it is has learned to cope with the loss at a high level, because they are indeed having that much fun with the game. Or they are someone who has not reached a high enough level and think some people are just crying to cry. And some even believe that this is keeping the gaming community elite in whatever way.

Anyone saying the penalty should be higher should check out the hardcore league. If you play exclusively in the hardcore league, why do you care about the default league? I assume you think you will eventually be there instead of making a new hardcore character when you die.

And people INSULTING OTHERS ABOUT DYING seem to think it is always avoidable, when it isn't. They think that the people should learn to change this, that, and everything else wrong. But sometimes there are no things wrong, and no human error involved. But they can't and won't try to accept that because they don't really care about how others feel or their opinion on the issue.

With time spent in a game comes experience. The learning curve for most games is very quick to get high in, and does bring.. experience on how to play. For this game the learning curve doesn't matter as much when it comes to surviving and living. It doesn't matter when something out of your control happens and you die and are left wondering.. "what happened". As long as you put into hp nodes and defensive nodes, some people think that you should be fine, no matter who you are or the situation. That also is not always true.

My personal opinion is that the experience penalty should be done away with, as it is at this moment a very disheartening thing for many players who have reached the very end game and are dying many times with maybe even as much as 30% of their build points (more maybe) defensive based.

I have been at the top of many games. Some with death penalty, some with no real death penalty to take note of. It's all the same to me when it comes at being at the top of a game. I play, I have fun, I start to have less fun, I quit. I can say that on the countless games I have played, the death penalty (and I am being honest here) has never made me quit a game for good. It has made me quit from time to time, or for the day. But never for good.

BUT THIS IS TRUE. I AM QUITTING RIGHT NOW, TODAY. BECAUSE OF LOSING OVER A HALF A LEVEL AT DIFFERENT TIMES DURING THIS LEVEL. Will I be back, I don't know. I care less about games than I used to. Maybe it's one of the reasons I don't feel like putting up with this. I'm not the only person to have lost their love of games but continues playing them.

The experience penalty versus the grind it takes to earn experience has made me quit this game. I have overcome many feelings of wanting to quit but this is not the case today.

Call me a soft core gamer, not a real gamer, or whatever you want. It doesn't matter to me. I am not the first to quit because of this and I will not be the last before whatever GGG wants to set in stone is indeed set in stone. Some are quitting over other reasons. Quitting because of a single part of a game you don't like isn't abnormal, especially when that part is a constant part of your daily game.

This game however was fun while I played it. And I did have fun until about level 73, where experience loss versus experience gained took a ridiculous shift. I made it past 4 levels after that, only to reach level 77 where I have quit.

As I am not one to pass up an argument I do try hard to be polite and civil and think about the other person's side before posting. I'm not smart, I am not better than you, and I do not think my opinion matters more than yours.

Also, my butt hurts.

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And you think: is it really worth my time to play?

No its not, get away

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FadeXF wrote:

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ItsRay wrote:

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And you think: is it really worth my time to play?

No its not, get away

Question: you ever post anything useful or relevant to the discussion at hand?

Time to grow up kid.

No, I do not, get away.

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bhavv wrote:

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derbefrier wrote:

One thing I don't understand about those who cry about the xp penalty comming here claiming they lost dozens of hours of progress. I mean If you die once or twice don't you think its a good idea to stop instead of throwing yourself into death repeatedly maybe rethink your strat of " kamikaze stuff till it dies". I mean death is the games way of telling you your not ready why are you ignoring this? What compels you to die over and over and over knowing the xp penaly exists. Your only loosing progress because you refuse to play by the games rules right? So what kind of crazy person knowingly does this? It just doesn't make sense.

THeres NOTHING you can do to prevent dying via Desync. I also didnt realize that there were any rules in this game saying that every player must build their characters with nothing but tanky survivable builds. It doesnt matter how careful you are, you can still die regularly in PoE.

desync is a bug and is not an inherent problem with the xp penalty. when its fixed it will go away. Yes you can still die but dying once or twice isn't a big deal and is not a huge loss. Dying 20 times in a row is but like I said your CHOOSING to ignore the game telling you your not ready for that content and you keep throwing yourself into situations you cant win what the hell do you expect to happen? Go farm some more XP and better gear than come back. you comment about being forced to get HP is stupid. harder mobs hit harder you need gear\passives to compensate for that its part of the difficulty curve, therefore part of the games rules. If you feel the requirement is too much that is a balance issue and is separate from the XP penalty. Plenty of people seem to do just fine so the only real variable here is you and that you lack the patience to build your character up to what it needs to be to progress and refuse to play the game how it was designed to be played. This is your problem not the games. Your refusal to adapt and to acknowledge this is whats causing you headaches. Instead of trying to make the game what you want it to be has it ever crossed your mind to try playing it how it actually is?

I dont have a problem with the harsh XP penalty on death but i can understand very well why some people do.
I like to play "roguelike" games and harsh games with terrible failure states but in this game it is something different.
With a certain build you can hit a brick wall at any lvl in the game, wich is fine but later this wall can have many names.
A not 100% connection or just the fact that you play the game in a certain way (in a room with other people, after a drink,...) will effectively kill your char at a certain lvl in a way that you can no longer progress and you could just as well delete him.

As i said before i have no problem with this, since i like to roll new chars or want to overcome this challenge but alot of people wont like this.
At lvl 70 you might loose a hour of farm wich is perfectly fine since you should not die every 2 hours anyway but this scales into oblivion later.

loosing prob 10+ hours on a death 80+ will mean for a lot of people who intentionally avoided HC league that they hit a wall and the complains in this forum will increase alot and i cant think of any reason why this issue should not be addressed, especially since it cant be in GGGs intrest for a f2p game to have the game simply end (no further progess) and loose alot of people to "dated" game design.

Deaths should slow progression and never call it to a halt !!!
(unless you play HC obviously)

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FadeXF wrote:

EDIT: see - I just died right now and it had NOTHING to do with me. BANG 15% gone again... flicker mob with aura and I just sat there trying to spam every potion but not even 1 got in due to the lag created by the mob. Fun times!

I almost believed that you had NOTHING to do with it, but all I had to do was look at the HC ladder and see that yes indeed ppl are over 90+ in levels. You cant tell me that these guys had luck riding them out that long.

Obviously game is fine, l2p. Your xp penality is nothing compared to our penalty.

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FadeXF wrote:

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derbefrier wrote:

desync is a bug and is not an inherent problem with the xp penalty. when its fixed it will go away. Yes you can still die but dying once or twice isn't a big deal and is not a huge loss. Dying 20 times in a row is but like I said your CHOOSING to ignore the game telling you your not ready for that content and you keep throwing yourself into situations you cant win what the hell do you expect to happen? Go farm some more XP and better gear than come back. you comment about being forced to get HP is stupid. harder mobs hit harder you need gear\passives to compensate for that its part of the difficulty curve, therefore part of the games rules. If you feel the requirement is too much that is a balance issue and is separate from the XP penalty. Plenty of people seem to do just fine so the only real variable here is you and that you lack the patience to build your character up to what it needs to be to progress and refuse to play the game how it was designed to be played. This is your problem not the games. Your refusal to adapt and to acknowledge this is whats causing you headaches. Instead of trying to make the game what you want it to be has it ever crossed your mind to try playing it how it actually is?

Listen: even if I only died once in 10 maps or even 20 or any number... it is still excessive to have to pay "life time" for a death in a video game - especially since it's meant to be fun.

I don't die very often. It happens, sure. But it's not that I play to die. My spec has every chaos, and resists, health I can get - I am behind a wall of summons... but even then I can take a death. Sometimes it's me. Most times it's not.

A lot of people just don't like the thought of paying a "real life" price for a death in a game.

You pay "life time" (which is a dumb concept) for a variety of things in game. I fail to see how experience loss on death is any different from the time you put in to acquire those levels in the first place or the time you put in to acquire your items.

If you don't like the thought of paying experience for death, do you not want a death penalty at all? If so, I vehemently disagree with there not being a penalty for reckless play-styles and bad builds. If not, what should the penalty be? There is no concept of durability in this game, so it can't be that.

Keep in mind that PoE is a game designed for hardcore gamers. These are the people who plan out their builds and want to tweak their characters for max efficiency and effectiveness. If you can't clear content without dying to the point where your experience is stagnating or even decreasing, you need to either change your play-style, change your equipment, or change your build. The first is easy, play better. The second is harder, especially if this is your only character, and the third can be impossible depending on how badly you screwed up your build. This means it is possible for your character to be stuck in progression until you can get enough regrets or obtain gear by other means in order to advance. And you know what? That's fine. The prospect of being stuck because I'm bad or my build is bad gives me an incentive to play better. The prospect of being stuck because my items are bad keeps me active on the trade channel and on the trade forums, constantly looking for upgrades.

Much of this is compounded because I play hardcore, but the idea can be extrapolated to softcore, where the "real life" price you are paying is measured in minutes or hours of gameplay, rather than days. Be smart and play with awareness and you won't lose experience.

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FadeXF wrote:

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yuwy wrote:

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FadeXF wrote:

EDIT: see - I just died right now and it had NOTHING to do with me. BANG 15% gone again... flicker mob with aura and I just sat there trying to spam every potion but not even 1 got in due to the lag created by the mob. Fun times!

I almost believed that you had NOTHING to do with it, but all I had to do was look at the HC ladder and see that yes indeed ppl are over 90+ in levels. You cant tell me that these guys had luck riding them out that long.

Obviously game is fine, l2p. Your xp penality is nothing compared to our penalty.

Your HC death is completely meaningless. Your character moves into my grouping where you can then strip all its gear, trade it, do whatever you want... you don't lose anything.

Spare me.... oh Mr Hardest of all the hardcores. <rollfuckingeyes> You HC guys truly are badass. Truly. No really. Why the rest of you laughing? I'm serious... come on... these guys are BAD ASS... and HARD COREEEEE......


rofl.

Are you being retarded on purpose? "Completely meaningless" is an exaggeration and you know it. The 90+ people he is talking about on the HC ladder haven't died, and the fact that if they did die they wouldn't be on that ladder means deaths are completely meaningful to his point.

You don't get to level 91 riding the luck train, hoping not to die. You get there because you play smart (and a lot, lol). There is some definite hardcore elitism around here sometimes, but you sound like you have some serious self-security issues with being softcore, and you don't even respond to his point.

So answer him...if it is possible, and happens frequently like you suggest, to die with it being completely out of your control, why are there people at 90+ levels in the Hardcore League? Should I take these guys to Vegas or maybe they are just better players than you?

There's nothing wrong with playing Softcore, but people think it gives them the license to play bad or use bad builds and still progress in the game. It doesn't work like that. You don't get penalized as much as hardcore players for that mistake, but there is still a penalty and I think that's a good thing.

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Govestun wrote:

Things are great the way they are now, GGG.

I remember a period of time where people didn't feel entitled to things just because they put effort into it. People just want to faceroll through things without thinking and "beat" the game.

I remember a time when dying meant dropping gear and deleveling and possible losing weeks worth of work. So everyone did everything they possibly could to avoid death. It was meaningful. The best part was that nobody complained about it. People learned from their mistakes and reflected on what they could do differently or improve their build so that they're not stuck in that position a second time.

Kids nowadays want a gold medal for participating and don't want penalty for not doing well. What an age we live in...

Yep.

The xp penalty for death is a skill/item check on stupidity. If your character is stuck at 80 ish then either your equipment is way below level OR your skill tree is beyond repair. There are repercussions for choices. This whole mentality of brute forcing and trying the same thing over and over and dieing constantly is the definition of insanity. The game is trying to tell you to STOP and think.

If you desync a lot, do you have seething potions? because I can tell you right now, ALL HC guys at 80+ have it. Why? because there moments where desync would just crush you if you didnt have granite+seething+leech. There are many factors out of your control that could kill you, guess what HC has it as well, but we dont sit and cry in the corner and ask for nerfs, we stop we think, we assess 'is this map worth it?' because it just might be your last.

This is the thinking part that I think some of the newer generation (not all) miss. STOP AND THINK PPL. There are ways around problems and the HC ladder is proof that the mechanics are in place to survive. The question is do you want to learn and survive or just keep pounding your head against the wall thats the crux of the issue. 15% xp lose is NOTHING if you just sit down, be calm, and assess the weakness of your character and address it in some meaningful way that isn't insane.