Donald Trump
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I disagree about Trump being moderate at all, most of the things that he says can't be taken at face value (for example, being socially moderate while doing things that will result in socially retrograde results). Trump's trick is being ambiguous or outright contradictory so people fill the gaps and then blaming mainstream media so people don't make any critical thought. He can talk about increasing taxes and then lowering taxes, being fine with gay people and selecting someone that supports gay conversion therapy for vice president and talks about state rights when it comes to gay marriage, talks about isolationism and later he talks about how he would crush things like ISIS with little ethical restraint (it's a general theme, showing strength over ethics, because it's PC). Wouldn't an isolationist just ignore Middle East, reduce money spent on the military and say fuck the world? (well, Trump indirectly has said fuck the world, but for all the wrong reasons).
About Stein and Johnson, Stein is not an option at all (she is as full of shit as Trump, a lunatic far leftist) and Johnson has extreme positions although he probably would be competent (gutting public services and any kind of safety net to zero, odds is that he would be wildly impopular in other ways). Thing is, that letting Trump win would be the worst case scenario (or at least it looks like that for me from outside), so from a game theory point of view, it would make sense to vote for the most likely option to win rather than third party (and yes, that would suck). Anyway, follow your conscience. Add a Forsaken Masters questline https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2297942 Last edited by NeroNoah on Jul 31, 2016, 6:17:19 PM
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" I did not say stein or johnson are viable options- especially in this election, since they don't stand a chance; voting for third parties however and them getting a certain threshold, guarantees funding for them, so they can grow and produce better options down the road. and not being stuck in a two-party binary choice. Im all for more options. I also dont have any prejudice towards extreme left, extreme right or centrist beliefs as long as they're all laid out concretely. also, Im of a belief you suspend all conscience when you vote. being a good politicians and being an honest person are two different things; being a good guy is not a occupation (well, I guess Bill Clinton can argue otherwise). I don't vote with conscience- I vote with pragmatism ;) Ie, I think Nixon was a damn good politician in my book. He just got caught in too deep. | |
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Ehhhh...the thing is that Trump may be too damaging by himself negating any gain if a third party becomes marginally more viable in the future. Too much pain, too little gain. If I wanted to allow third party candidates, I'd change the vote system (FPTP is notorious for converging to a two party system, in other countries parties have to make coalitions at least avoiding polarization) rather than take that risk this election. That may require a lot of activism to be viable.
Also, the problem with Stein is not being far left, it's that she is full of shit. Johnson is saner. Add a Forsaken Masters questline
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2297942 | |
" The real problem with Johnson is his supporters (the people most likely to campaign for him) are ideologues that undermine him every step of the way. I'm someone that believes very much in the motto I've seen on a few libertarian websites: " But unlike the yahoos you'd hear on many college campuses, I have a wildly different (read: more practical) view of what minimum government really means. We've proven time and time again that we're both not responsible enough, and too lazy to have a society that functions without child labor laws, civil rights bills, explicit minority protections, etc etc. It's a shame. I'd like to call myself a libertarian, but crazy people make it really difficult. Last edited by innervation on Jul 31, 2016, 7:49:39 PM
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" well for swing states you might have a point (but again, I dont believe trump will be too damaging. hes mostly a showman who will have his cabinet do decisions and hard work for him). for california where hillary is easily taking it in her sleep, my vote for stein or johnson means a ton more than a vote for hillary (or trump for that matter) | |
"Spoken like a true social conservative. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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" I prefer optimal over minimal to refer to that (being left wing I favor more safety nets, but I tends more towards center than anything on economics...I'll admit there is a waste problem that must be adressed always and sometimes tax cuts and deregulation are actually needed), but yeah, I can't really discuss against that. " Yeah, fair enough. I know some libertarian/conservative economists in reddit and they'll do the same than you (they are not stupid enough for Trump though, if there is something where he would be a disaster is economics, even the casual observer should notice...I disagree he would be not that damaging there after analyzing some of his proposals) unless there is a need to do otherwise. Add a Forsaken Masters questline https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2297942 Last edited by NeroNoah on Jul 31, 2016, 9:17:55 PM
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" ?? I'm socially pretty liberal, stopping short of the inanity of safe spaces and microagressions. I even explicitly stated a couple of the things that 'Libertarians' want to do away with like child labor laws and civil rights legislation, that I disagree with - that is to say I want those things on the books as they are an acceptable level of government intervention in our lives, imo. Generally equal rights and protecting children are considered socially liberal, not conservative right? " My definition of minimal implies optimal. Because to me, the optimum amount is as little as possible while maintaining a healthy civil society. Given the amount of subjective words in that sentence, I can see why this would be fuzzy. |
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" Yeah, but minimal has more space for ideology. People confuse small with efficient a lot of times and that grinds my gears (those that advocate minimal for normative/ethical reasons are a different group, though). Add a Forsaken Masters questline https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2297942 Last edited by NeroNoah on Jul 31, 2016, 10:04:39 PM
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" I guess a clearer way of saying it would be, 'to me my optimal is minimalist in nature, but yes minimal doesn't necessarily imply optimal'. |
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